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Author Topic:   COVID vaccine works - we're saved!
Phat
Member
Posts: 17111
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 556 of 568 (901376)
11-08-2022 5:51 PM
Reply to: Message 555 by Tangle
11-07-2022 2:59 PM


Re: Horray your saved
You might be interested in the effectiveness of vitamin D3 in correlation with hospital admissions. I've heard that D3 made a marked difference.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 555 by Tangle, posted 11-07-2022 2:59 PM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 557 by Taq, posted 11-08-2022 6:03 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 558 by Theodoric, posted 11-08-2022 7:57 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
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Posts: 9323
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.4


(4)
Message 557 of 568 (901377)
11-08-2022 6:03 PM
Reply to: Message 556 by Phat
11-08-2022 5:51 PM


Re: Horray your saved
Phat writes:
I've heard that D3 made a marked difference.
There have been mixed results.
quote:
So far, 11 RCTs investigating the therapeutic effects of vitamin D in COVID-19 have reported. They are diverse with respect to study design (5 are placebo-controlled, 6 are open-label or single-blind), sample size (ranging from 30 to 543 participants), the nature of the intervention (8 investigate vitamin D3, 2 investigate 25(OH)D3 and 1 investigates 1,25(OH)2D3) and primary outcomes (mortality, duration of hospital stay, intensive care requirement, resolution of symptoms and viral clearance). Their findings are also heterogeneous: seven trials report null results, whereas four report favourable effects of the intervention on a primary or co-primary outcome. The most striking positive result comes from an open-label RCT of oral 25(OH)D3 administration conducted in 76 adults hospitalized with COVID-19 in Spain: this trial reported that just 2% of participants randomized to intervention were admitted to intensive care, as compared with 50% of those randomized to control7. However, this study is at high risk of bias, owing to imbalance in baseline characteristics and its open-label design, as knowledge of allocation could have influenced physicians’ decision to admit participants to intensive care. Moreover, background therapy (azithromycin and hydroxychloroquine) was unconventional, compromising the generalizability of results to patients receiving current standards of care. Other well-conducted RCTs (such as ref.8) have not demonstrated sustained or consistent benefits of vitamin D on mortality, intensive care requirement or duration of hospital stay.
Vitamin D for COVID-19: where are we now? | Nature Reviews Immunology
Vaccines are still, by far, the best first defense. Remdesivir and Paxlovid have both been approved for treatment with COVID infections, so those would probably be better options. Still, it won't hurt anything to top off with some vitamin D, just don't pretend that it is a valid replacement for vaccines or approved meds.

This message is a reply to:
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Theodoric
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Posts: 8140
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 558 of 568 (901389)
11-08-2022 7:57 PM
Reply to: Message 556 by Phat
11-08-2022 5:51 PM


Re: Horray your saved
What you hear is worthless. What does the data show?
I will tell you what the data shows. Nothing, no real effect. If you find studies that show something present them. Studies that showed a marked effect were either poorly done or they were not able to replicate the results.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 556 by Phat, posted 11-08-2022 5:51 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
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Posts: 9323
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.4


(3)
Message 559 of 568 (902117)
11-17-2022 6:24 PM
Reply to: Message 555 by Tangle
11-07-2022 2:59 PM


Re: Horray your saved
quote:
Based on official reported COVID-19 deaths, we estimated that vaccinations prevented 14·4 million (95% credible interval [Crl] 13·7–15·9) deaths from COVID-19 in 185 countries and territories between Dec 8, 2020, and Dec 8, 2021.
Global impact of the first year of COVID-19 vaccination: a mathematical modelling study

Those numbers could have been a lot higher if the vaccines were made available in poorer countries, but still, that's a lot of lives saved by a vaccine in a single year.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 555 by Tangle, posted 11-07-2022 2:59 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9323
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 560 of 568 (902457)
11-23-2022 5:34 PM


Republican Own Goal
Would be interesting to see if vaccines could actually make an impact in voting at some point.
quote:
"In counties where a large share of the population is getting vaccinated, we see a much smaller gap between Republicans and Democrats," said Jacob Wallace, an author of that study and an assistant professor of health policy at the Yale School of Public Health.
Indeed, his paper found that the partisan gap in the deaths widened from April to December 2021, after all adults became eligible for Covid vaccines. Excess death rates in Florida and Ohio were 153% higher among Republicans than Democrats during that time, the paper showed.
"We really don’t see a big divide until after vaccines became widely available in our two states," Wallace said.
https://www.nbcnews.com/...publicans-democrats-why-rcna50883

  
Porkncheese
Member
Posts: 189
From: Australia
Joined: 08-25-2017


Message 561 of 568 (902710)
11-27-2022 2:49 AM


Follow the Psyence
Meanwhile the vaxed are suddenly dropping all around with all cause deaths up by as high as 40% in some highly vaxed nations ...
I wonder why...

Replies to this message:
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 Message 563 by xongsmith, posted 11-27-2022 10:12 AM Porkncheese has not replied
 Message 566 by Taq, posted 11-28-2022 12:33 PM Porkncheese has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 7508
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 562 of 568 (902711)
11-27-2022 4:51 AM
Reply to: Message 561 by Porkncheese
11-27-2022 2:49 AM


Re: Follow the Psyence
Meanwhile the vaxed are suddenly dropping all around with all cause deaths up by as high as 40% in some highly vaxed nations ...
I wonder why...
Liar.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 561 by Porkncheese, posted 11-27-2022 2:49 AM Porkncheese has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 564 by Theodoric, posted 11-27-2022 11:08 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
xongsmith
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Posts: 2402
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 563 of 568 (902717)
11-27-2022 10:12 AM
Reply to: Message 561 by Porkncheese
11-27-2022 2:49 AM


Re: Follow the Psyence
WHAT A FUCKIN LIAR! GET THE FUCK OUTTA HERE, YOU ASSHOLE!

"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."
Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned!
Enjoy every sandwich!

- xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale


This message is a reply to:
 Message 561 by Porkncheese, posted 11-27-2022 2:49 AM Porkncheese has not replied

  
Theodoric
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Posts: 8140
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 564 of 568 (902734)
11-27-2022 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 562 by AZPaul3
11-27-2022 4:51 AM


Re: Follow the Psyence
Don't you love the arguing by meme. Shows the utter stupidity.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 562 by AZPaul3, posted 11-27-2022 4:51 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 565 by AZPaul3, posted 11-27-2022 12:03 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 7508
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.3


(3)
Message 565 of 568 (902745)
11-27-2022 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 564 by Theodoric
11-27-2022 11:08 AM


Re: Follow the Psyence
No. But it does shed a lot of light on the low intellect of the poster.
He is a nazibot. No intellect, just hate.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 564 by Theodoric, posted 11-27-2022 11:08 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9323
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.4


(4)
Message 566 of 568 (902897)
11-28-2022 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 561 by Porkncheese
11-27-2022 2:49 AM


Re: Follow the Psyence
PorknCheese writes:
Meanwhile the vaxed are suddenly dropping all around with all cause deaths up by as high as 40% in some highly vaxed nations ...
It's as if anti-vaxxers can't even stop for a second and do some simple math.
About 79% of the US is vaccinated. If 40% have dropped dead in a country with 330 million people that would be 0.79*0.40*330E6=104E6. That's 104 million people that seemingly have died due to the vaccine in the US. Funny how no one has noticed this. Our hospitals were filled to capacity, and over capacity at times, due to people dying from COVID, and that was nowhere close to the rates anti-vaxxer fantasies are claiming for deaths due to vaccines.
This is worse than Flat Earth.
Added in edit:
Just for fun, I looked up the mortality rates for the US over the last 10 years or so:
Year	Death Rate	Growth Rate
2022	9.075	1.090%
2021	8.977	1.090%
2020	8.880	1.120%
2019	8.782	1.120%
2018	8.685	1.220%
2017	8.580	1.240%
2016	8.475	1.270%
2015	8.369	1.270%
2014	8.264	1.290%
2013	8.159	0.090%
2012	8.152	0.090%
U.S. Death Rate 1950-2022 | MacroTrends
Death rate is deaths per 1,000 people. If we use the last pre-COVID year as our benchmark, then there has been about 0.4 more deaths per 1,000 people in 2022. If all of those extra deaths are due to vaccines (which they aren't) then we are looking at a 0.04*0.79 or 0.03% increase. Again, this pushing the numbers to the extreme. 40% . . . really?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 561 by Porkncheese, posted 11-27-2022 2:49 AM Porkncheese has not replied

  
Percy
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Posts: 21347
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.4


(3)
Message 567 of 568 (903834)
12-17-2022 10:51 AM


Politics Can Kill You
For most of us here, our beliefs about covid mortality were confirmed by recent studies. One "concluded that people living in more-conservative parts of the United States disproportionately bore the burden of illness and death linked to covid-19." (Can politics kill you? Research says the answer increasingly is yes.)
The article goes on for a while, but to summarize in my own words, some states actively fought the coronavirus and other states ignored it. Those that ignored it suffered disproportionately from illness and death due to covid.
Still summarizing, the other study concluded that longevity in the US has dropped to the lowest it's been since 1996 — 76.1 years.
I have a couple friends who believe covid is fake. None caught covid. I have several other friends who are very casual about covid. They almost all caught it. A number of friends masked up and still caught covid. And one friend is a fatalist who caught long covid, still can't walk for more than ten minutes, and refuses all medical treatment for his condition.
This tells us just one thing that I think we already knew: people are driven by their internal feelings, and much about those internal feelings is driven by external factors, particularly what everyone around them believes. Unfortunately, in today's connected world, "everyone around them" potentially includes everyone everywhere, including all the Internet idiots claiming covid was a fraud wrought by the Democrats as part of a larger conspiracy to take away our freedoms. The only thing that seems to convince these people is lying on their death bed, and oftentimes not even then.
The studies:
--Percy

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8898
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.5


(2)
Message 568 of 568 (904506)
12-31-2022 8:58 AM


I wonder what the Covidiots are making of what's happening in China now that the lid has been taken off.
Reuters reported that Chinese hospitals have been overwhelmed during the Christmas period as the epidemic rips through the population. The Chinese vaccines aren't terribly good, immunity from prior infection is fairly low given the severity of the lockdown and despite them publishing a 90% vaccination rate half of the over 80s haven't had their third vaccination.
It's not looking good there; you get some idea what would have happened without lockdowns and good vaccines.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


  
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