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Author Topic:   Phat's Bookshelf
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 31 of 174 (904224)
12-23-2022 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by AZPaul3
12-23-2022 11:25 AM


Re: Videos, Books, and Propaganda
AZ writes:
Do your research, Phat, BEFORE you stick your foot in it.
Au Contraire, Paulie. Do *your* research before you step in it.
Let's look at the History of major decisions and what ideology the decision makers were, shall we?
Wikipedia writes:
A bank run or run on the bank occurs when many clients withdraw their money from a bank because they believe the bank may cease to function in the near future. In other words, it is when, in a fractional-reserve banking system (where banks normally only keep a small proportion of their assets as cash), numerous customers withdraw cash from deposit accounts with a financial institution at the same time because they believe that the financial institution is, or might become, insolvent; they keep the cash or transfer it into other assets, such as government bonds, precious metals or gemstones.
Quick question. Which would you rather have today? $100,000.00 in government bonds or $100,000.00 in precious metals or gemstones? Be honest and explain your reasons.
1933-Roosevelt (D) confiscates public gold (for public good? )
1944-Bretton Woods. (Bi Partisan)
1971- Nixon(R) seperates gold from the US Dollar.
1974- Ford(R) makes it legal to own gold again. (gives back what was confiscated)
2008-Obama(D) bails out banks and financial institutions too big to fail.
2020-Trump(R) oversees the quickest recovery from a stock market crash ever in history. (the downside is that the money supply increased exponentially. We still are observing the effects of that.
I have an assignment for you. Write down the times the Fed has done QT. Compare it with the times the Fed initiates QE. Compare the two and note the patterns.
Is the car moving forward or are we rocking it back and forth in the snow? We are stuck.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by AZPaul3, posted 12-23-2022 11:25 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by ringo, posted 12-23-2022 12:22 PM Phat has replied
 Message 36 by Taq, posted 12-23-2022 12:27 PM Phat has replied
 Message 49 by AZPaul3, posted 12-23-2022 2:24 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6421
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 32 of 174 (904225)
12-23-2022 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Phat
12-23-2022 11:58 AM


Re: Now that you mention it
But here is the kickr. Humans are not a solid bedrock. Only rocks are solid bedrock.
When you are hungry, try eating rock. In the meantime, I'll go buy some real food from humans.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Phat, posted 12-23-2022 11:58 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 33 of 174 (904226)
12-23-2022 12:22 PM


Gold isn't magic
Phat,
You seem to have this weird belief that if gold stays at the same dollar amount it will protect you from inflation. This is obviously wrong. The price of gold has to increase at the same rate as inflation in order to protect your wealth.
Let's put it a different way. Why not just keep physical cash (i.e. bank notes)? It will always be the same dollar amount, just as you think gold should do to protect you from inflation. Why is gold magic when it does the same thing as physical cash?
Let's do the math.
You cash out $10,000 in $100 dollar bills and hide it under your mattress. After a year of 10% inflation the purchasing power of your cash hoard is 90% of what it was.
You cash out $10,000 in gold and hide it under your mattress. After a year of 10% inflation you cash in that gold and get the same $10,000 back. Your gold hoard results in you having 90% of the purchasing power you once had.

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 496 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 34 of 174 (904227)
12-23-2022 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Phat
12-23-2022 12:17 PM


Re: Videos, Books, and Propaganda
Phat writes:
Let's look at the History of major decisions and what ideology the decision makers were, shall we?
Just out of curiosity, do you think you have presented some kind of coherent argument there?

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Phat, posted 12-23-2022 12:17 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Phat, posted 12-23-2022 12:29 PM ringo has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 35 of 174 (904229)
12-23-2022 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Taq
12-23-2022 12:08 PM


Re: Now that you mention it
So if gold is worth the same dollar amount over time as the dollar becomes worth less then the gold is worth less.
Is a dollar in 1940 worth a dollar today? Why or why not? My point is that the very idea of less is relative to the time or era we are in?
A 2022 dollar is worth less than a 1933 dollar.
An ounce of gold is worth an ounce of gold.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Taq, posted 12-23-2022 12:08 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Taq, posted 12-23-2022 12:30 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 39 by ringo, posted 12-23-2022 12:31 PM Phat has replied
 Message 45 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-23-2022 12:43 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 36 of 174 (904230)
12-23-2022 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Phat
12-23-2022 12:17 PM


Re: Videos, Books, and Propaganda
Phat writes:
$100,000.00 in government bonds or $100,000.00 in precious metals or gemstones? Be honest and explain your reasons.
It depends on the amount of risk I am willing take. Precious metals or gemstones are much riskier. I could lose a lot more than I would with bonds, or I could earn a lot more. Bonds offer a very safe investment, but with a ceiling on returns. It's all about risk assessment.
1933-Roosevelt (D) confiscates public gold (for public good? )
1944-Bretton Woods. (Bi Partisan)
1971- Nixon(R) seperates gold from the US Dollar.
1974- Ford(R) makes it legal to own gold again. (gives back what was confiscated)

2008-Obama(D) bails out banks and financial institutions too big to fail.
2020-Trump(R) oversees the quickest recovery from a stock market crash ever in history. (the downside is that the money supply increased exponentially. We still are observing the effects of that.
No currency in existence today is backed by gold. There's a good reason for that.
I have an assignment for you. Write down the times the Fed has done QT. Compare it with the times the Fed initiates QE. Compare the two and note the patterns.
If we were on the gold standard neither could happen and we would be stuck.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Phat, posted 12-23-2022 12:17 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Phat, posted 12-23-2022 12:34 PM Taq has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 37 of 174 (904231)
12-23-2022 12:29 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by ringo
12-23-2022 12:22 PM


Re: Videos, Books, and Propaganda
ringo writes:
Just out of curiosity, do you think you have presented some kind of coherent argument there?
I am not yet wise enough to write a book, but I am quite capable of reading them.
And I am in the process of weighing ideas and in effect teaching myself. I dumped the modern economic theorist around a year ago. They were a bad advertisement for their product.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by ringo, posted 12-23-2022 12:22 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by ringo, posted 12-23-2022 1:16 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 38 of 174 (904232)
12-23-2022 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Phat
12-23-2022 12:26 PM


Re: Now that you mention it
Phat writes:
An ounce of gold is worth an ounce of gold.
A pound of water is worth a pound of water. No one is saying that the chunk of gold will lose or gain mass over time.
Gold has value because we can trade it for currency. If we couldn't trade gold for currency then it would be worthless. It is the currency that has the ultimate value, not the gold. We don't buy food with gold. We buy food with currency. We don't buy houses with gold. We buy houses with currency. See a trend here?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Phat, posted 12-23-2022 12:26 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 496 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 39 of 174 (904233)
12-23-2022 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Phat
12-23-2022 12:26 PM


Re: Now that you mention it
Phat writes:
An ounce of gold is worth an ounce of gold.
An ounce of gold will still make as many electrodes as it did in 1933 or as many wedding rings as it did in 1933.
But the value is how much you can exchange it for, whether dollars or bacon. That has changed a lot since 1933 and can also change again.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Phat, posted 12-23-2022 12:26 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Phat, posted 12-23-2022 12:35 PM ringo has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 40 of 174 (904234)
12-23-2022 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Taq
12-23-2022 12:27 PM


Re: Videos, Books, and Propaganda
Taq writes:
If we were on the gold standard neither could happen and we would be stuck.
If we were on the gold standard neither could happen and we would be stuck. stable. There. Fixed it for you.
If being stuck means not being in debt, I'm all for stuck. Explain how 30 trillion in debt is not worrisome. Explain how inflating both money and debt helps anyone.
Taq writes:
It depends on the amount of risk I am willing to take.
Life is a risk, carnale.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Taq, posted 12-23-2022 12:27 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Taq, posted 12-23-2022 12:37 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 41 of 174 (904235)
12-23-2022 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by ringo
12-23-2022 12:31 PM


Re: Now that you mention it
ringo writes:
But the value is how much you can exchange it for, whether dollars or bacon.
These days, I would rather bring home the bacon.
If in 2030 we have to pay the hog farmer 1 million per pig and the grocer sells the bacon for a thousand dollars, I think I would prefer a different medium of exchange. Since you think humans have such stable value, maybe they should slap a chip on you and you can trade for whatever you want and run up the bill. Israel had a jubilee every 7 years.
What would happen if they had that now? You would be off the hook at least.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by ringo, posted 12-23-2022 12:31 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by ringo, posted 12-23-2022 12:42 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 42 of 174 (904236)
12-23-2022 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Phat
12-23-2022 12:34 PM


Re: Videos, Books, and Propaganda
Phat writes:
If we were on the gold standard neither could happen and we would be stuck. stable.
The Great Depression happened when we were on the gold standard.
If being stuck means not being in debt, I'm all for stuck. Explain how 30 trillion in debt is not worrisome. Explain how inflating both money and debt helps anyone.
It is better than a massive recession.
Life is a risk, carnale.
Bonds are less of a risk than gambling on commodities. Don't you agree?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Phat, posted 12-23-2022 12:34 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Phat, posted 12-23-2022 12:42 PM Taq has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 496 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 43 of 174 (904237)
12-23-2022 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Phat
12-23-2022 12:35 PM


Re: Now that you mention it
Phat writes:
These days, I would rather bring home the bacon.
As usual, you miss the point.
The point is that the value of gold DOES change. It's only worth the amount of bacon you can get for it. It's "stability" depends on the same factors as the stability of the dollar.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Phat, posted 12-23-2022 12:35 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 44 of 174 (904238)
12-23-2022 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Taq
12-23-2022 12:37 PM


Re: Videos, Books, and Propaganda
Bonds are less of a risk than gambling on commodities. Don't you agree?
Yes, but I would say that bonds are less of a risk than gambling and that commodities are less of a risk than bonds in todays current environment.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Taq, posted 12-23-2022 12:37 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by Taq, posted 12-23-2022 12:47 PM Phat has replied
 Message 50 by Theodoric, posted 12-23-2022 3:00 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4504
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


(1)
Message 45 of 174 (904239)
12-23-2022 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Phat
12-23-2022 12:26 PM


Re: Now that you mention it
A 2022 dollar is worth less than a 1933 dollar.
An ounce of gold is worth an ounce of gold.
Are you sure that a 2022 hour of work is not worth more than a 1933 hour of work?
What's a 2022 ounce of gold worth compared to a 1933 ounce of gold?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Phat, posted 12-23-2022 12:26 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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