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Author Topic:   Popular Vote vs Electoral College
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 7508
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
Message 106 of 118 (904056)
12-20-2022 11:43 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by Theodoric
12-20-2022 10:56 PM


Re: Is A Republic Popular?
Continue to improve the flawed framework they came up with.
Don't quote me on this but I think I remember Thomas Jefferson once wrote he expected a constitutional convention of the states to rewrite the whole thing every 25 years.
We're late.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Theodoric, posted 12-20-2022 10:56 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2402
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 107 of 118 (904057)
12-21-2022 2:03 AM
Reply to: Message 103 by AZPaul3
12-20-2022 10:18 PM


Re: Is A Republic Popular?
AZPaul3 writes:
Do you know what a swing state, a battleground state, is? Do you know what gives a state that designation?
I'd imagine it would be close polling, too close to call, 50-50. In the Winner-Take-All scheme you would campaign there to push your polling from 50-50 to 51-49 or even a bigger margin, but careful not to overspend once you are at 51-49 solid.
In a Proportional EC a swing state night still be a 50-50. Or it might be 55%-45% in a 5 elector state and you would push for 75%-25% to get 4 electors out of the 5. or some such margin. In a 55 elector state that is polling 60%-40%, then you would push for 62%-38% to increase your electors from 33-22 up to 34-21 or more.
So everywhere you would be pushing to get at least one more elector in each state you are spending money in. In the bigger states you could get more than 1 more, but not so much in the smaller states.
It would take more a few years to work out how to allocate your campaign spending.

"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."
Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned!
Enjoy every sandwich!

- xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale


This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by AZPaul3, posted 12-20-2022 10:18 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2402
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 108 of 118 (904058)
12-21-2022 2:24 AM
Reply to: Message 102 by AZPaul3
12-20-2022 9:49 PM


Re: Is A Republic Popular?
AZPaul3 writes:
The EC was not "the very thing that was installed to prevent a looney from winning". That was not a consideration in its formation. Nor could it ever have that effect.
Really? Wow, i guess my schooling was wrong about that. Thanks.
I seem to remember reading that the Electors would be selected from trustworthy men (no women then) who would not let their passion take over their voting. And, in rare cases, to override a rabid public if the public had chosen an obvious loon.
Of course the main reason was to convince the small states to join up.

"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."
Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned!
Enjoy every sandwich!

- xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale


This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by AZPaul3, posted 12-20-2022 9:49 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by AZPaul3, posted 12-21-2022 7:10 AM xongsmith has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 7508
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
Message 109 of 118 (904060)
12-21-2022 7:10 AM
Reply to: Message 108 by xongsmith
12-21-2022 2:24 AM


Re: Is A Republic Popular?
I seem to remember reading that the Electors would be selected from trustworthy men (no women then) who would not let their passion take over their voting.
That was the original intent (Federalist Papers #68) but within the first 50 years things changed when states legislated their electoral votes, forcibly, to the majority winner in the state instead of proportionally or allowing electors any options in voting.
The ancient history and their unenlightened ways are not the issue. We know better today. The question is what can we do about it today. This EC problem, regardless of the ancient history that got us here, can be solved by the states legislating proportionality in their EC votes.
The more aggressive options are to have an amendment, or, hold a constitutional convention and rewrite the whole thing.
The major impediment to either of these is that we have republicans.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by xongsmith, posted 12-21-2022 2:24 AM xongsmith has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 17111
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 110 of 118 (904067)
12-21-2022 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by Theodoric
12-20-2022 10:56 PM


Re: Is A Republic Popular?
Theo writes:
(I've) Been ignoring this topic as it is another display of Phat's ignorance and trolling. The EC needs to be abolished as we abolished state legislatures appointing Senators. If we are going to move toward "a more perfect union" we must remove the anti-democratic legacies left in The Constitution.
We must continue what the founders tasked us to do. Continue to improve the flawed framework they came up with.
We do have to be careful not to encourage a one-party State, however.
One need look no further than China to see how well that is working out.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Theodoric, posted 12-20-2022 10:56 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by Theodoric, posted 12-21-2022 10:37 AM Phat has replied
 Message 112 by Tangle, posted 12-21-2022 10:57 AM Phat has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 8140
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 111 of 118 (904069)
12-21-2022 10:37 AM
Reply to: Message 110 by Phat
12-21-2022 9:33 AM


Re: Is A Republic Popular?
Who the fuck is encouraging a one-party state other than the GQP? Do you even gave a clue about what you are talking about?
WTF does China have to do with US politics and government?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Phat, posted 12-21-2022 9:33 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by Phat, posted 12-21-2022 11:16 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8898
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 112 of 118 (904071)
12-21-2022 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 110 by Phat
12-21-2022 9:33 AM


Re: Is A Republic Popular?
Trump actually said that the US should use the one-party state and life-long presidency.
“He’s now president for life, president for life. And he’s great,” Trump said, according to audio of excerpts of Trump’s remarks at a closed-door fundraiser in Florida aired by CNN. “And look, he was able to do that. I think it’s great. Maybe we’ll have to give that a shot someday,” Trump said to cheers and applause from supporters.
And - just for fun - he supported the 'one-China' policy, throwing Taiwan under a bus. He's a really dangerous toe-rag.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Phat, posted 12-21-2022 9:33 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 17111
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 113 of 118 (904073)
12-21-2022 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by Theodoric
12-21-2022 10:37 AM


Re: Is A Republic Popular?
Theo writes:
WTF does China have to do with US politics and government?
In my opinion, anyone who even asks that question is a wee bit ignorant.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Theodoric, posted 12-21-2022 10:37 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by Theodoric, posted 12-21-2022 12:37 PM Phat has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 8140
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 114 of 118 (904078)
12-21-2022 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by Phat
12-21-2022 11:16 AM


Re: Is A Republic Popular?
WTF does China have to do with the US government and politics in relation to your rant?
How is the fact that China is one party relevant?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Phat, posted 12-21-2022 11:16 AM Phat has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 8140
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 115 of 118 (904083)
12-21-2022 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by Phat
12-19-2022 3:51 PM


Re: The USA is a very Scary country
Waiting

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by Phat, posted 12-19-2022 3:51 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by Phat, posted 12-21-2022 6:09 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 17111
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 116 of 118 (904091)
12-21-2022 6:09 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by Theodoric
12-21-2022 3:55 PM


Re: The USA is a very Scary country
Patience, Grasshopper. It takes time to make an argument or defend an assertion. Give me a night to get it together. Oh and by the way, I hope that you and yours have a blessed holiday season and are all well fed, with warm cider mugs in hand! That goes for all of the peanut gallery, too.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by Theodoric, posted 12-21-2022 3:55 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by ringo, posted 12-22-2022 11:53 AM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20915
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 117 of 118 (904144)
12-22-2022 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by Phat
12-20-2022 3:27 PM


Re: Them's Fighting Words
Phat writes:
If you or anyone else, be it woke Democrats or Chinese Communists ever tried to control free speech (or private property rights) the United States would enter a Civil War.
Fuck!
Do you read your own posts at all?
How would a war with China be a civil war?

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Phat, posted 12-20-2022 3:27 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20915
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


(2)
Message 118 of 118 (904145)
12-22-2022 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 116 by Phat
12-21-2022 6:09 PM


Re: The USA is a very Scary country
Phat writes:
Patience, Grasshopper. It takes time to make an argument or defend an assertion.
It's taken you since 2003-12-29.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Phat, posted 12-21-2022 6:09 PM Phat has not replied

  
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