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Author Topic:   Coffee House Musings on Creationist Topic Proposals
nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 435 of 1429 (896077)
07-31-2022 8:37 AM
Reply to: Message 433 by Dredge
07-31-2022 1:27 AM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
My argument is that no one can prove that ToE (or any other theory) describes the process that shaped the fossil record, therefore no one can claim to know how evolution works.
Yawn!
Science isn't about proof. Science is about the best explanation, given the evidence.
Neither you nor Bechly nor Behe has a better explanation.
Bechly and Behe are not going to persuade all those rusted-on atheist biologists out there.
There are also many Christian biologists out there. "Atheist" has nothing to do with the issue.
On the contrary, all those rusted-on atheist biologists out there will be hostile to any suggestion of intelligent design in nature.
I'm not hostile to the idea that there is intelligent design in nature. But I am hostile to the stream of lies and bullshit coming from the intelligent design movement.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 433 by Dredge, posted 07-31-2022 1:27 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 448 by Dredge, posted 07-31-2022 12:18 PM nwr has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 455 of 1429 (896101)
07-31-2022 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 448 by Dredge
07-31-2022 12:18 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
If science can't prove that ToE describes the process responsible for producing the fossil record, then science can't claim to know how evolution works.
Scientific knowledge is tentative and based on evidence. It does not require proof.
Translation:

"the idea that there is intelligent design in nature" = "the stream of lies and bullshit coming from the intelligent design movement"
Wrong.
I actually believe that all biological organisms (including bacteria) have some degree of intelligence. And evolution amounts to them collectively using that intelligence to design future populations.
As I see it, this is intelligent design in nature. However, it is not the kind of intelligence nor the kind of design that the ID movement is peddling.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 448 by Dredge, posted 07-31-2022 12:18 PM Dredge has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 531 of 1429 (896235)
08-03-2022 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 528 by Dredge
08-03-2022 11:56 AM


Re: Dredge Is Still YEC
You think evolution proves that God is a fantasy?
Maybe we are getting to the core of the issue. Dredge is apparently worried that evolution somehow refutes his religion.
Sorry, you have missed by a mile (or more). Evolution tells us nothing about God. It is the behavior of the god-bots (that includes you) that persuade us that your God is a fantasy.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 528 by Dredge, posted 08-03-2022 11:56 AM Dredge has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 614 of 1429 (896395)
08-07-2022 6:17 PM
Reply to: Message 604 by Dredge
08-07-2022 11:26 AM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Hypothetically, a YEC scientist could develop vaccines just as competently as a Darwinist scientist.
Empirically (as constrasted with your "hypothetically"), many YEC were refusing to use the COVID19 vaccine, and were instead recommending horse dewormer medication.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
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nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 653 of 1429 (896605)
08-14-2022 7:29 PM
Reply to: Message 650 by Dredge
08-14-2022 6:03 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Here's one dictionary definition of "know":
to perceive or understand as fact or truth; to apprehend clearly and with certainty
That's a poor definition of "know".
Knowing has more to do with acquaintance than with factuality. I can know the story of Little Red Riding Hood, even though it is not factual.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 650 by Dredge, posted 08-14-2022 6:03 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 674 by Dredge, posted 08-15-2022 11:44 PM nwr has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 675 of 1429 (896644)
08-15-2022 11:56 PM
Reply to: Message 674 by Dredge
08-15-2022 11:44 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
I mean, words like "fact ... truth ... certainty" are a world away from the scientific definition of "know"
I doubt that there is a scientific definition of "know".
Scientists do talk of facts and truth. The facts are their data, not their theories. But they can know their theories in the sense of being very familiar with them. Ordinary language mostly isn't based on dictionary definitions.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 674 by Dredge, posted 08-15-2022 11:44 PM Dredge has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


(3)
Message 755 of 1429 (896891)
08-25-2022 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 754 by ringo
08-25-2022 11:51 AM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
You can't argue with mathematics.
You underestimate the trolling ability of trolls.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

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nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


(3)
Message 838 of 1429 (899153)
10-09-2022 10:05 AM
Reply to: Message 836 by Dredge
10-09-2022 2:39 AM


Re: Dredge tries with Re: what did it?
According to Darwinist theory, every part of every living thing is the result of survival advantages.
That's the viewpoint known as panadaptationism. Many (perhaps most) evolutionists disagree.
Try reading up about exaptation and about spandrels.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 836 by Dredge, posted 10-09-2022 2:39 AM Dredge has not replied

Replies to this message:
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nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 905 of 1429 (899449)
10-13-2022 9:25 PM
Reply to: Message 903 by dwise1
10-13-2022 9:19 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Withholding necessary information in order to increase acrimony is troll behavior.
Or maybe he is a child who found a new toy and is playing with it.
I see it as much ado about nothing.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 903 by dwise1, posted 10-13-2022 9:19 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 1166 of 1429 (902703)
11-26-2022 11:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1164 by Dredge
11-26-2022 11:31 PM


Re: UCD evidence
I accept that the theory of UCD is the best scientific explanation for the evidence ... for what it's worth.
Why didn't you say that a long time ago?

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1164 by Dredge, posted 11-26-2022 11:31 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
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nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


(3)
Message 1179 of 1429 (902917)
11-28-2022 4:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1172 by Dredge
11-28-2022 2:56 AM


Re: UCD: Gift From God
Oh yeah ... if no one believed in UCD, no drugs or vaccines could be developed.
I'm old enough to remember an earlier time. Yes, there were still drugs back then, but most of them didn't work at all well. To find new drugs, they would test exotic plants to see if they had any useful pharmaceutical effects.
And yes, there were vaccines back then, but there were few of them. There was no vaccine for measles, for mumps, for chicken pox, for polio. Childhood disease was a more serious problem than it is today.
Many of the newer more effective drugs and vaccines that we have today are due to research into biology and biochemistry which started as a study of evolution and inheritance.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1172 by Dredge, posted 11-28-2022 2:56 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1292 by Dredge, posted 12-14-2022 10:28 PM nwr has replied
 Message 1295 by Dredge, posted 12-15-2022 3:48 AM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


(2)
Message 1293 of 1429 (903665)
12-14-2022 10:34 PM
Reply to: Message 1292 by Dredge
12-14-2022 10:28 PM


Re: UCD: Gift From God
Trolls will troll.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1292 by Dredge, posted 12-14-2022 10:28 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
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nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 1368 of 1429 (904031)
12-20-2022 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1365 by Dredge
12-20-2022 11:23 AM


Re: UCD evidence
And what is a "poe"?
Poe's law

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1365 by Dredge, posted 12-20-2022 11:23 AM Dredge has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 1411 of 1429 (905883)
02-04-2023 6:07 PM
Reply to: Message 1410 by Dredge
02-04-2023 2:56 PM


Re: On A Similar Note...
Who is Ken Ham?
He's a creationist from Queensland.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1410 by Dredge, posted 02-04-2023 2:56 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1413 by Dredge, posted 02-04-2023 11:46 PM nwr has replied
 Message 1414 by Dredge, posted 02-05-2023 12:35 AM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


(2)
Message 1418 of 1429 (905904)
02-05-2023 10:17 AM
Reply to: Message 1413 by Dredge
02-04-2023 11:46 PM


Re: On A Similar Note...
I grew up in Queensland and lived there for 50 years ... the only Ham I heard of was the kind one finds at the supermarket.
Here you go:
Ken Ham
He discovered that he could make more money in America than in Australia.
Ken Ham says it is all about the Bible. But I'm suspecting that it is really all about the money.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1413 by Dredge, posted 02-04-2023 11:46 PM Dredge has not replied

  
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