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Author | Topic: Coffee House Musings on Creationist Topic Proposals | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
xongsmith Member Posts: 2578 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 6.8
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Dredgings:
medical science will make use of the mechanism regardless. I'd much rather it happen in my lifetime than wasting 100's of years barking down the wrong tree."I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside." Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned! Enjoy every sandwich! - xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale
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Dredge Member Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Dredge writes:
Oh yeah ... if no one believed in UCD, no drugs or vaccines could be developed.nwr writes:
Yep, no doubt about it ... no one thought of deriving pharmaceutical effects from plants until they "discovered" that humans and potatoes evolved from the same organism. LOL!!
I'm old enough to remember an earlier time. Yes, there were still drugs back then, but most of them didn't work at all well. To find new drugs, they would test exotic plants to see if they had any useful pharmaceutical effects.And yes, there were vaccines back then, but there were few of them. There was no vaccine for measles, for mumps, for chicken pox, for polio. Childhood disease was a more serious problem than it is today.
Which drug or vaccine could not have been developed if no one had "discovered" that humans and potatoes evolved from the same organism (UCD)? ... and then explain why.
Many of the newer more effective drugs and vaccines that we have today are due to research into biology and biochemistry which started as a study of evolution and inheritance.
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nwr Member Posts: 6408 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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Trolls will troll.
Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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xongsmith Member Posts: 2578 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 6.8 |
well, well, well:
New branch on Tree of Life contains organisms unlike any others on Earth “In the taxonomy of living organisms, we often use the gene ‘18S rRNA’ to describe genetic difference,” said Dr. Denis Tikhonenkov, first author of the study. “For example, humans differ from guinea pigs in this gene by only six nucleotides. We were surprised to find that these predatory microbes differ by 170 to 180 nucleotides in the 18S rRNA gene from every other living thing on Earth. It became clear that we had discovered something completely new and amazing.” so it appears to still use the RNA-DNA system originated by the UCD. oh well...."I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside." Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned! Enjoy every sandwich! - xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale
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Dredge Member Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Dredge writes:
Oh yeah ... if no one believed in UCD, no drugs or vaccines could be developed.nwr writes:
Mankind has been using "exotic plants" for their "pharmaceutical effects" for at least 4000 years. I'm old enough to remember an earlier time. Yes, there were still drugs back then, but most of them didn't work at all well. To find new drugs, they would test exotic plants to see if they had any useful pharmaceutical effects. Gee, I wonder how we did that without the theory of UCD. LOL!!
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Dredge Member Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
So
nwr writes:
is the best answer you could come up with in response to my question in Message 1292 ... Trolls will troll. "Which drug or vaccine could not have been developed if no one had "discovered" that humans and potatoes evolved from the same organism (UCD)? ... and then explain why." Is it my imagination, or are you a genius?
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xongsmith Member Posts: 2578 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 6.8
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Dredgings:
Mankind has been using "exotic plants" for their "pharmaceutical effects" for at least 4000 years. Gee, I wonder how we did that without the theory of UCD. LOL!! ...and none of them worked very well. A lot of stoned out people still sick. I don't want to wait another 4000 years, Dredge. Instead I will trust the professionals using the RNA-DNA relatedness from UCD."I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside." Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned! Enjoy every sandwich! - xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Good point, Xongsmith. I trust Modern Pharma for some things and not so much for others, but overall I realize that the onus for good health is my responsibility. I won't go to the natural foods store and buy willow bark. I will simply take a couple of aspirin. I trust the process and inventiveness of humanity to a substantial degree. Of course, having been given intelligence by (I believe) my Creator, I only gain wisdom through surrender, (AA concepts) self discipline,meditation, and mindfulness.
There is a time for a prayer group agreeing that a person receive full healing. And there is a time to trust science to help with that persons healing. I could attend Mass 7 days a week and immerse myself in the church. Trusting God (as I understand Him) is an important part of my life. But so is helping others. So is expressing myself thoroughly and honestly in this Forum. Yes, we love to call each other names, but a core part of this Forums mission and purpose starts with a level of respect for the intelligence of our opponent.(Yes, we *do* play chess, even if it is political chess, E versus C chess, or anecdotal chess. We Kibbutz here. Ringo put it well.) I rant and rave about homeless people, for example. But when I go to work at my job, I am one block from the corridor of homelessness that plagues Denver, and I can honestly say that I love those people more than I hate them. Our debate can be broken down quite simply.
Dredge writes: Are you implying that we could have lived like Quakers,been blissfully unaware and unconcerned about the discipline of scientific progress, and still progress as a species towards developing new drugs, new chemo treatments (for example) and new methods of understanding through prayer meetings and a simplified lifestyle alone? The majority of us chose not to. I wonder why that is?
Which drug or vaccine could not have been developed if no one had "discovered" that humans and potatoes evolved from the same organism (UCD)?
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1
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Dredge writes: First of all, the discipline of understanding another mans theory is the exact process through which vaccines,Chemotherapy treatments, even over the counter cough medicines were developed. You are a good Catholic, right? Explain any advances in the field of medicine among the clergy and laymen of the RCC that successfully moved forward in our (human) "fight" against childhood diseases or cancer treatments that willfully avoided the mainstream consensus at oh I dunno...UCLA or the Mayo clinic?
Which drug or vaccine could not have been developed if no one had "discovered" that humans and potatoes evolved from the same organism (UCD)? ... and then explain why.
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Dredge Member Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
APauling writes:
I think what you're trying to say is, scientists don't need the theory of UCD to know how and why vaccines work. In which case, I agree.
Not the scientists planning the vaccines nor the chemists making it.They don't need your silly bullshit to know the vaccines work and why.
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dredge writes:
I can't believe that you don't understand: "relatedness of all species" is exactly the same as common descent. If you concede that all species are related, then you HAVE to accept common descent. You DO, in fact, accept common descent.
It doesn't make any difference to medicine what the "relatedness of all species" is due to, so the "due to common descent" part of your comment is superfluous and irrelevant. Dredge writes:
Cow and pig insulin.
You keep insisting that UCD is useful to medicine, but you can't cite even one example to support your claim. Dredge writes:
And you've been wrong every time.
I've pointed out that glaring flaw to you many time... Dredge writes:
And we have no choice but to conclude that your self-admitted IQ of 9 in no way qualifies you to reach that conclusion.
I'm sorry, APauling, but I've no choice but to conclude that you're a fool or you're mentally ill. Dredge writes:
1. "Merely a theory" - i.e. merely the most complete explanation we have - is a nonsensical statement. Secondly, UCD is merely a theory - you can't prove that it's "reality".2. Science doesn't attempt to "prove" anything. 3. You're demonstrating that you have no ability to learn anything. Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
I've asked him that question several times. He won't/can't answer it. He doesn't even dare to think about it. Explain any advances in the field of medicine among the clergy and laymen of the RCC that successfully moved forward in our (human) "fight" against childhood diseases or cancer treatments that willfully avoided the mainstream consensus at oh I dunno...UCLA or the Mayo clinic?Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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Taq Member Posts: 9972 Joined: Member Rating: 5.5
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Dredge writes: I think what you're trying to say is, scientists don't need the theory of UCD to know how and why vaccines work. Scientists used UCD to figure out how vaccines work, as I have already shown you. It doesn't matter if you think they needed it or not. They used UCD.
quote: Our knowledge of toll-like receptors came from applying UCD.
quote:
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Dredge Member Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Dredge writes:
If so, that means that - whether scientists accepted the theory of UCD or not - they would still have been able to develop the vaccine in the first place, doesn't it?wrongsmith writes:
What the hell are you talking about, wrongsmith? yes, once in a triple blue moon on Friday the 13th, in some unlikely year,they could stumble into a vaccine ... but they'd have to be looking for it. -- and if they didn't accept UCD,then their method of looking for it would still have to be consistent with the UCD RNA-DNA mechanism, using lab equipment and procedures that just so happened to not destroy any steps along the multi-year way. Explain why scientists need the theory of UCD to develop vaccines ... and try to keep it sane.
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Taq Member Posts: 9972 Joined: Member Rating: 5.5
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Dredge writes: Explain why scientists need the theory of UCD to develop vaccines ... and try to keep it sane. They used UCD to develop vaccines.
quote: Our knowledge of toll-like receptors came from applying UCD.
quote:
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