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Author | Topic: The Changing World Order | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Our city government calculated that it would take $122.5 million to "end homelessness" in the city. That would require a tax increase of $40.59 per month ($487.08 annually) per homeowner in 2023 and $11.90 per month ($142.80 annually) in 2024. Taq writes:
Who is "we"? We have more than enough money to put all homeless people into homes.Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Your belief is wrong. The government has a legal right to do whatever the Constitution doesn't forbid. And it has a moral right (and duty) to do whatever the electorate elects them to do.
I believe that even in a national crisis, the government has no right to nationalize everyone's private wealth. Phat writes:
See above. I appealed to the Constitution.
He [ringo] will appeal to emotionalism... Phat writes:
That's a completely un-Christian stance.
I stand on the right to private property and individual liberty over and above group cohesiveness. Phat writes:
Is a glitch in your mind.
Confiscatory taxation... Phat writes:
ALL government is an infringement on individual liberty and private property rights. All SOCIETY is an infringement on individual liberty and private property rights. ... infringes on individual liberty and private property rights. Remember our member Petrophysics? We haven't seen him here since he said he voted for Trump in 2016 because he did everything he promised (BEFORE he was elected, mind you.) That genius Petrophysics claims to be completely self-made with no responsibility to society. I asked him if he built the university where he learned about petrophysics or if he built the roads that he drove on to get to that university. I got no answer. And I don't suppose I'll get an answer from you either. You'll go on blathering about how you have no obligation to society.
Phat writes:
How many years have you been predicting that? And that "5 years" keeps receding into the future. When the global economy tanks,(and it will within 5 years)...Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Will you ever get it through your head that the "private interest" that you tout is not YOUR interest? You're like the poor whites who supported slavery even though it was AGAINST their own interests.
My theory is that the Democrats want the gold/money available for public interest above private interest... Phat writes:
I own macaroni.
I can only say that the IMF and most global Central Banks still own (and are buying) more gold. Phat writes:
USEFUL commodities are a safe harbor, things that people NEED, like food. Invest your money in pork bellies. Commodities are always a safe harbor in an economic storm.
Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
nwr writes: I'll give him 1/3 credit. Churchill and Stalin get the other two-thirds. And it was WW II and the war effort that made America an Empire...not a New Deal Democrat. Nixon, Reagan, and Ford were no better, to be fair.
Why is it that you don't credit FDR with bringing us that prosperity?
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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Phat writes: And it was WW II and the war effort that made America an Empire...not a New Deal Democrat. You do know who was US President during WWII and that war effort, right? FDR was also never an isolationist and he spoke fervently for joining the war in Europe, contrary to the strong isolationist sentiment of other politicians. The reason we had a war effort was FDR.
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I give the American people as much credit for the war effort as I do FDR. There were wealthy industrialists who helped turn us into the vaunted arsenal of democracy.
And getting back to Churchill, I saw an alleged quote by him on BrainyQuote, but I'm not sure I trust these quotes as having originated from the purported authors! See what you guys think:
More on Churchill from Wiki:
In 20th century politics, Winston Churchill (1874–1965) was one of the world's most influential and significant figures. He was Prime Minister of the United Kingdom from 1940 to 1945, when he led the country to victory in the Second World War, and again from 1951 to 1955. Apart from two years between 1922 and 1924, he was a Member of Parliament (MP) from 1900 to 1964. Ideologically an economic liberal and imperialist, he was for most of his career a member of the Conservative Party, and its leader from 1940 to 1955. He was a member of the Liberal Party from 1904 to 1924. (...) The historian Roger Hermiston writes that, when forming his national coalition government in May 1940, it helped Churchill that his own career had "never been circumscribed by party affiliation".[1] He had begun as a Conservative, defected to the Liberals for twenty years and then returned to the Conservatives. Stuart Ball asserts that he was always comfortable with the idea of governing coalitions.[2] Churchill was perceived by some observers to have been largely motivated by personal ambition rather than political principle,[3][4] and he lacked "permanent commitment to any party".[5] While Robert Rhodes James wrote that Churchill was "fundamentally a very conservative man",[5] Martin Gilbert considered him to be always "liberal in outlook".[6] Roy Jenkins believed that, whether Churchill was conservative or liberal, he invariably opposed socialism, except that he was completely reliant on the help and support of his Labour Party ministers in the wartime coalition.[7][8] Churchill was wary of socialist tendencies toward state planning and bureaucracy, because he consistently believed in both the liberty of the individual and of free markets.[9] Paul Addison asserts, however, that Churchill was paradoxically supportive of trade unionism, which he saw as the "antithesis of socialism".[10] While Churchill was in some respects a radical and a reformer,[11] it was not from any desire to challenge existing social structure, but to preserve it.[12] He could not empathise with the poor, so instead he sympathised with them,[13] displaying what Addison calls the attitude of a "benevolent paternalist".[14] Thus Churchill, 1/3 of the Big Three, was a Conservative in World War II and beyond. Stalin was of course a Dictator, and FDR had a sleeping giant of a country backing him in his role.Granted FDR was a very influential president and helped Britain win its war as a member of the allied powers. My point is that the allied block had both conservatives and liberals involved in the war effort. Edited by Phat, : added Churchill history Edited by Phat, : editing Edited by Phat, . Edited by Phat, .
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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Phat writes: I give the American people as much credit for the war effort as I do FDR. There were wealthy industrialists who helped turn us into the vaunted arsenal of democracy. If it was a Republican president I bet you would be singing his praises.
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Taq writes: Nonsense. After all, Herbert Hoover was credited for getting us *in* to the depression, and he was a Republican. After reading up on Churchill, I must say that I respect him for being a member of both parties at different times. And for those of you who despise rich guys, note that FDR was a very wealthy individual. Churchill, though he had an aristocratic background was said to not be particularly wealthy. If it was a Republican president I bet you would be singing his praises. I studied more online.
Did New Deal Programs Help End the Great Depression? ... quote: And lets get back to Ray Dalio's book.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2
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Weird how you removed an important section in the middle of what you quoted. I wonder why. Let's see what part you skipped.
quote: Weird, huh.Also, you skip another important part in the same article. Let's see what that says. quote:So the New Deal needed to be bigger and bolder, to solve everything but what it did was amazing. As for Churchill he was a brilliant war leader but mediocre outside of war. He did not come to power by an election. He took over leadership of the Conservative Party in May 1940 thus became Prime Minister. The last election was in 1935. The next was in 1945. It was a monumental loss for Churchill and his party.What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Mr.Dalio has another brilliant video that explains, in 30 minutes, a simplified description of how the economy works in the United States. You have said some uninformed and ignorant statements that show me that you really don't understand the economy.
I will provide the video link, but I also want to break down the transcript so that people such as ringo who believe in the discipline (and old-fashioned approach) to modern learning can begin to understand the concepts.
Here is the basic outline of this video. Those so interested can click on the transcript themselves (on YouTube) but I also am rereading what Mr.Dalio says in his presentation.
Credit 3:28 I have the transcript. There is no charlatan involved here. No "theory" from a Hedge Fund Founder. What I see is straightforward talk and beautifully animated explanations from a man who first learned economics on the street long before this so-called "Modern" Economic theory was ever conceived. Judge for yourselves.Cycles 6:20 Short-term Debt Cycle 11:58 Long-term Debt Cycle 14:34 Deleveraging 16:51 A Beautiful Deleveraging 26:18 In Closing 29:37 Oh and by the way, I cut out nothing and added nothing. What you see is what he teaches.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2
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Tell me what I said that was ignorant and uninformed. We don't debate by video. Summarize what he says. Why do you persist in presenting him as an expert on the economy? He is not. He is a billionaire hedge fund manager.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2
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I have some emails out to some people I highly respect that have backgrounds in economics to see if they can give me their opinion on Dalio, his writings and his videos.
Hopefully, they have time to respond. What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Before I attempt to answer your question, I have a few of my own (for you)
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
Your questions show how ridiculous you are. You have become a caricature of yourself. That you even ask these questions is astounding. Even for you. But as you still do not want to have a serious conversation, goodbye.
But I will continue to point out stupidity, dishonesty, and failures of logic. What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
So you should give Hitler credit too. (By the way, Hitler was an authoritarian.) nwr writes:
I'll give him 1/3 credit. Churchill and Stalin get the other two-thirds. And it was WW II and the war effort that made America an Empire... Why is it that you don't credit FDR with bringing us that prosperity?Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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