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Author | Topic: The Changing World Order | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18706 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.1 |
ringo writes: How is making the working class pay ever larger bills going to be the tide that raises all boats? How is you paying less taxes going to fix that? Lets get back to the book. (Page 24) Ray Dalio: It is like the old saying:
The Golden Rule: Those who have the gold make the rules. Can anyone argue that this was not true? |
Dalio writes:
he goes on to say that though these are his own views the ideas corroborate with what others have said before him. The classes of those who were wealthy and powerful evolved over time(e.g., from monarchs and nobles who were landowners when agricultural land was the most important source of wealth, to capitalists and elected or autocratic political officials now that capitalism produces capital assets and (I saw) how, over time, this dynamic leads to a very small percentage of the population gaining and controlling exceptionally large percentages of the total wealth and power, then becoming overextended, and then encountering bad times, which hurt those least wealthy and least powerful the hardest, which then leads to conflicts that produce revolutions and/or civil wars. When these conflicts are over, a new world order is created, and the cycle begins again. And it all makes sense for a Hedge Fund manager to inform his clients about changes likely to sweep through a country or economy so that they can prepare accordingly.The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Nor are Democrats the best party or the only one we should have. -Phat,2022 addressing The Peanut Gallery.
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Taq Member Posts: 10385 Joined: Member Rating: 5.7
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Phat writes: Why would Walmarts close if the Walmart family left the country? If they are still open in the US then they can be taxed.
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Phat Member Posts: 18706 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.1 |
Well of course the businesses can be taxed. That's only fair. Alice Walton still has plenty of money and pays her legal share, though the attorneys she hires are a business expense.
I worry that the wealthy will legally get out of paying the necessary increase in tax revenue to bail the United States out of the huge hole that it is in (which I think will never happen) and the bill will be stuck with you and I. Meanwhile, homelessness will continue to increase and the future of the country is uncertain. I hate to be negative...Tangle always says I preach DOOM and GLOOM, but people need to take their blinders off.The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Nor are Democrats the best party or the only one we should have. -Phat,2022 addressing The Peanut Gallery.
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Taq Member Posts: 10385 Joined: Member Rating: 5.7
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Phat writes: I worry that the wealthy will legally get out of paying the necessary increase in tax revenue to bail the United States out of the huge hole that it is in (which I think will never happen) and the bill will be stuck with you and I. I am also concerned about more and more of the tax burden being shifted to middle and lower class citizens. That's why I vote Democrat.
Meanwhile, homelessness will continue to increase and the future of the country is uncertain. We have more than enough money to put all homeless people into homes. It's just a matter of will and priorities. Just the wealth of one of the top billionaires in the US is enough to buy a simple home for all current homeless people. I'm not saying we liquidate the wealth of billionaires, only pointing out that the money exists. What I have noticed over the years is that people have issues with government funded programs like housing the homeless because they don't think the homeless are worthy of their help. Sounds a bit harsh, but I do think that is what it boils down to. We saw this same type of attitude during the pandemic when people were getting stimulus checks. One of the loudest talking points, especially amongst conservatives, was that people were just sitting around and getting money. They hated it. Of course, they still go gangbusters for massive government subsidies for billionaires, but a few hundred bucks for poor people drives them nuts.
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Phat Member Posts: 18706 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.1 |
Taq writes: Who is "we"? And why should "we" elect a government (of either political persuasion) who considers the money in the treasury and the money of the people as one lump sum? We have more than enough money to put all homeless people into homes.The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Nor are Democrats the best party or the only one we should have. -Phat,2022 addressing The Peanut Gallery.
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Taq Member Posts: 10385 Joined: Member Rating: 5.7
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Phat writes: Who is "we"? We the people.
And why should "we" elect a government (of either political persuasion) who considers the money in the treasury and the money of the people as one lump sum? I never said that we should. I was only pointing out that a single person in the US has enough money to buy a home for all of the homeless in our country. It was more of a critique of how much wealth has moved to the top. added in edit: Just thought I would throw the math in. There are about 500,000 homeless in the US right now. Let's say 2 people per house at a price of $300,000 each, so nothing too fancy. That's $75 billion. If Elon Musk paid for that, he would have about $145 billion dollars of net worth left over. Bezos would have about $95 billion left over. And more fun with math . . . The "War on Terror" between 2001 and 2022 cost about $2.3 trillion. That comes to 2.3E12/(22*12)= $8.7 billion per month. So we could house all of the homeless for 10 months of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. We fought those wars for 264 months. Edited by Taq, . Edited by Taq, .
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kjsimons Member Posts: 835 From: Orlando,FL Joined: Member Rating: 6.7
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There are no "Authoritarian Democrats" only Authoritarian Republicans, as the Democrats are actually (mostly) trying to help society.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9489 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: |
Phat thinks taxation is authoritarian.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Phat Member Posts: 18706 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.1 |
To clarify, I believe that even in a national crisis, the government has no right to nationalize everyone's private wealth.(Nor to confiscate the gold, as FDR did) I'm guessing that the peanut gallery sees that they do. (At least ringo will.
![]() He will appeal to emotionalism, asking me how I can call myself a Christian if women and children are starving....anywhere in the world. I stand on the right to private property and individual liberty over and above group cohesiveness. Taxation in and of itself is necessary. Confiscatory taxation in the event of a "national crisis" infringes on individual liberty and private property rights. This is also why the NRA is supported by many. Jar would tell you. He sees individual liberty as the right to bear arms. I see it as the right to private property. I didn't learn this from Dalio, but there is a global movement backed by the BRIC nations to usurp the dollar as the global reserve currency.
kjsimons writes: The Democrats would use that as an excuse. I again bring up FDR and gold confiscation. There are no "Authoritarian Democrats" only Authoritarian Republicans, as the Democrats are actually (mostly) trying to help society. When the global economy tanks,(and it will within 5 years) the government in power at that time would likely turn authoritarian and in an appeal to emotionalism claim that "they" were trying to help society. But that's getting off-topic...sort of. ![]() Edited by Phat, : added jabberwocky ![]() Edited by Phat, : ongoing editing as I revise my train of thought Edited by Phat, : fixing additional spelling errors and blemishes The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Nor are Democrats the best party or the only one we should have. -Phat,2022 addressing The Peanut Gallery.
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Phat Member Posts: 18706 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.1 |
This is not mentioned in Ray Dalio's book (I don't think, anyway) but the question arose in my mind about why precisely FDR confiscated the gold and silver in 1933.
Wiki had the following quotes, taken from Executive Order 6102 quote: Several things to note:
Note the interplay between national interest and private property rights. And in order to get a peek into my mind and where this all is heading, consider the implications of an executive order today that tied in the digital currency with the price and legality of private gold ownership. Democrats want control. They think that fiat money belongs to the public. Republicans want freedom of private ownership. Note also that today's Fed "prints" money with abandon...especially since Nixon took us off of the Bretton Woods system to "defend the dollar against the speculators." The speculators were not private citizens at this point, since Ford's executive order was in 1974 and Nixon's was in 1971. (The speculators were other nations trying to get their own stash of gold from the US. And for those of you who argue lamely that the dollar determines the price of gold rather than the inverse, I can only say that the IMF and most global Central Banks still own (and are buying) more gold. Also, consider that gold is priced in dollars and the dollar is high right now in the current global sanctions/currency war. If the US Dollar ceased being the main reserve currency (and) at best a bit player among many, gold would show its true value. My theory is that the Democrats want the gold/money available for public interest above private interest and the Republicans to this day are still likely hoarding gold in the event that the dollar either hyperinflates or deflates and becomes shunned by the global markets...a time which has not yet arrived and which many say is coming.
Wiki: You guys can draw your own conclusions, but I will argue until the cows come home that gold is never going to become a barbarous relic (Keynes) nor will it ever crash like bitcoin.Commodities are always a safe harbor in an economic storm. Now back to the book..... Edited by Phat, : clarification. Edited by Phat, : more tinkering The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should notbe the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 explaining his stance regarding political moderation.
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nwr Member Posts: 6489 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined:
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Several things to note:
Note the interplay between national interest and private property rights. And I call bullshit on that. FDR was dealing with the great depression. Ford acted in a time of prosperity. Why is it that you don't credit FDR with bringing us that prosperity?Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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ringo Member (Idle past 730 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
But you don't like the people. You don't want to be equal with them.
ringo writes:
The people decide what's necessary. You don't get to decide what's "necessary". Phat writes:
Another reason why you should throw Dalio out the window. Conservatives want to maintain their privilege. That's THEIR privilege, not yours.
According to Dalio's video, Liberals by and large want to redistribute. Conservatives want to maintain. Phat writes:
Apparently YouTube hasn't had any videos to show you the results of the recent mid-term elections. It's YOUR bunch that is being voted out. f you raise my taxes beyond a reasonable level, I will lobby to have you voted out.Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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Taq Member Posts: 10385 Joined: Member Rating: 5.7
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Phat writes: Taxation in and of itself is necessary. Confiscatory taxation in the event of a "national crisis" infringes on individual liberty and private property rights. Can you give a real world example of confiscatory taxation that has happened in the US?
The Democrats would use that as an excuse. I again bring up FDR and gold confiscation. People were compensated for their gold.
When the global economy tanks,(and it will within 5 years) the government in power at that time would likely turn authoritarian and in an appeal to emotionalism claim that "they" were trying to help society. But that's getting off-topic...sort of. As with most Republican thought, it is all about fantasies of what they believe will happen instead of what is actually happening.
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ringo Member (Idle past 730 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Stop talking about authoritarianism. You don't know what you're talking about.
My argument focuses on Liberal Authoritarianism and control. Phat writes:
More important, there is no reason to allow them to do business in a country that they refuse to support with their taxes. There's your beloved "offshore system" again, where they take their vast profits out of the country. They do have a point in that there is no reason for a man such as Bezos or Musk to even stay in this country if the people vote to supertax their wealth (rather than giving them business perks)Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 730 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
How is making the working class pay ever larger bills going to be the tide that raises all boats?![]() I give spare change to a homeless person. He spends it on drugs. The drug dealer buys groceries at Safeway. The government taxes Safeway and spends the money on welfare. The welfare recipients buy groceries at Safeway. Safeway pays you. You pay your rent. Your landlord buys groceries at Safeway. Taxes paid to the government don't just disappear into a hole. Tax cuts for the rich DO go into a hole (overseas).Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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