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Author | Topic: Coffee House Musings on Creationist Topic Proposals | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dredge Member Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
APauling writes:
Irrelevant to the discussion ... as usual. As you have shown us, accepting the preponderance of the evidence also sounds like a very dumb idea to you. Assume that I accept UCD ... that will help keep you on track ... but then you won't have anything to say.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8513 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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... but then you won't have anything to say. In almost 400 messages here you haven't said anything so no great loss.Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
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Dredge Member Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
APauling writes:
... an APauling testament to your lack of discernment, your inability to learn and your on-going struggle with cognitive dissonance.
In almost 400 messages here you haven't said anything
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Dredge Member Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Taq writes:
Yeah, right ... in fact, the theory of UCD was so crucial that none of the researchers mentioned in the article say anything about it. LOL!
It was because of UCD that they hypothesized toll proteins would have the same function in humans as it does in fruit flies. On the contrary, the article describes how Medzhitov noticed (from Hoffman's work) "that flies with defects in their toll genes became hypersusceptible to fungal infection." That observation gave Medzhitov the idea that toll genes might act as a sensor, and he then applied that idea to the human immune system. So what Medzhitov performed was simply an exercise in comparative physiology ... which doesn't require the theory of UCD. "Janeway and Medzhitov could barely contain their delight. Could their human toll perform the same antifungal tour de force? Immediately, Medzhitov set to work. In essence, he wanted to know if human toll functioned as a sensor—a molecular scout for microbes—as well as a signaler to the adaptive immune system. After a year of experimentation, the answer to both questions was a resounding yes." The History Behind The Discovery of toll-like Receptors < Yale School of Medicine Your problem seems to be that you're conflating evidence for the theory of UCD with a practical use for the theory of UCD ... as if they're one and the same thing.
"Two and a half years later, the idea of innate immunity in humans and its connections to defense in invertebrates had already taken hold. At least 150 scientists gathered at a National Academy of Sciences colloquium in Irvine, Calif., entitled “Virulence and Defense in Host-Pathogen Interactions: Common Features between Plants and Animals.” At the meeting, 12 researchers specifically discussed their work on toll in flies and “toll-like receptors”—as the mammalian versions are now known—and other aspects of innate immunity. Two dozen other scientists focused on patterns common to the insect and mammalian pathogens.
I love the gratuitous By March 2001, scientists had found 10 other human toll-like receptors, including toll-like receptor 2, which Shizuo Akira, MD, and colleagues at Osaka University showed responds to a particular sequence found in bacterial DNA but not in mammalian DNA. To get an idea of how fast the field has grown since 1997, a literature search for the term “toll-like receptor” in 2022 brought up more than 56,000 abstracts. The evolutionary connections also awed researchers, as they eventually found toll-like molecules in worms, mice, even plants. Plant geneticist Santosh Misra, PhD, and colleagues at the University of Victoria in British Columbia genetically engineered antimicrobial peptides into potatoes to get the crops to withstand fungal infection. Protective compounds produced by plants could conceivably work as new classes of antibiotics in people as well."The History Behind The Discovery of toll-like Receptors < Yale School of Medicine Darwinist propaganda in that passage, as if none of the knowledge described could have been gained without recognizing the "evolutionary connections". That sort of Darwinist spin reminds me of David Attenborough's nature shows. Due to his missionary zeal, Attenborough can't simply present a nature show ... he's got to ram a sermon about Darwinian evolution down viewers throats as well, as if it's vitally important.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
I've got a question.
Dredge writes: Darwin has been dead since 1882. Many other names have been associated with evolutionary theory since then. So why do critics of evolution always refer to the study as Darwinism? ...I love the gratuitousDarwinist propaganda... The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Nor are Democrats the best party or the only one we should have. -Phat,2022 addressing The Peanut Gallery.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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Phat writes: So why do critics of evolution always refer to the study as Darwinism? Because they know nothing about the theory of evolution, but need a named enemy. It's actually quite useful as it immediately identifies them as a clueless fundamentalist.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Taq Member Posts: 9972 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6
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Dredge writes: The discussion is not about an "hypothesis" or "doing science" ... it's about a practical use in medical science or biology for the theory of UCD. And I have given you examples of just that. Your response?
An "hypothesis" per se is just an idea floating around in someone's mind, not a practical use. It is absolutely a practical use. Finding routes for research is a very, very practical application for any theory.
If the article you provided in Message 1109 describes a practical use in medical science or biology for the theory of UCD, what is it, exactly? The practical use is in selecting animal models that will yield the best results in biomedical research.
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Taq Member Posts: 9972 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6
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Dredge writes: On the contrary, the article describes how Medzhitov noticed (from Hoffman's work) "that flies with defects in their toll genes became hypersusceptible to fungal infection." That observation gave Medzhitov the idea that toll genes might act as a sensor, and he then applied that idea to the human immune system. So what Medzhitov performed was simply an exercise in comparative physiology ... which doesn't require the theory of UCD. False. Scientists apply phylogenies which are based on evolutionary histories.
Darwinist propaganda in that passage, as if none of the knowledge described could have been gained without recognizing the "evolutionary connections". The knowledge was gained through our understanding of evolution and the evolutionary history of life. It appears my analogy was dead on: Frank: Airplanes are useless as modes of transportation.Abe: That's not true. I flew in an airplane from Boston to Atlanta, and it worked great. Frank: That doesn't count since you could have driven in a car from Boston to Atlanta. Abe: But I didn't drive in a car. I flew in an airplane. Frank: Well, you didn't have to fly, so airplanes are still useless.
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xongsmith Member Posts: 2578 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 6.8
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Taq writes:
It appears my analogy was dead on: Frank: Airplanes are useless as modes of transportation. Abe: That's not true. I flew in an airplane from Boston to Atlanta, and it worked great. Frank: That doesn't count since you could have driven in a car from Boston to Atlanta. Abe: But I didn't drive in a car. I flew in an airplane. Frank: Well, you didn't have to fly, so airplanes are still useless. My old friend in college used to rue that analogies never work.In this case, he is confirmed, because we still don't have the car analogy to drive to Atlanta. The only way in the analogy is to fly. Maybe if it was the huge rocket to get an astronaut to the moon: Dredge: Rockets are useless as a way to get to the moon.Abe: That's not true. The Apollo 11 crew flew on a rocket from Earth to the moon, and it worked great. Dredge: That doesn't count since in the crew cabin itself there was no rocket. Abe: But they flew on a rocket. Dredge: Well, there is no evidence of a rocket in any of the interior footage of the crew cabins, not on any of the lights and switches, so rockets are still useless. "I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside." Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned! Enjoy every sandwich! - xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dredge writes:
I gave you that way, way, way, way back: Cow and pig insulin. It wasn't a creationist who thought of that. Somebody who knew about UCD said, "Hmm... maybe we can get a donations from our cousins the cows and pigs." ... it's about a practical use in medical science or biology for the theory of UCD.Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dredge writes:
An IQ of 9 would suggest that YOU are the one with a lack of discernment, an inability to learn and an on-going struggle with cognitive dissonance. ... an APauling testament to your lack of discernment, your inability to learn and your on-going struggle with cognitive dissonance. You really should never have admitted to being so stupid. It colors everything you say.Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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Dredge Member Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Phat writes:
Not everyone who accepts that life on earth has evolved accepts that neo-Darwinism offers a satisfactory explanation for that evolution. why do critics of evolution always refer to the study as Darwinism? In other words, not all evolutionists are Darwinoids (aka Darwinists).
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Dredge Member Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
ringoat writes:
Isn't it about time you admitted the obvious ... that you're even more retarded than I am?
An IQ of 9 would suggest that YOU are the one with a lack of discernment, an inability to learn and an on-going struggle with cognitive dissonance. You really should never have admitted to being so stupid. It colors everything you say.
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Dredge Member Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
ringoat writes:
No need to be a UCD-believing Darwinoid to think of using cow and pig insulin in humans. All one needs is a big of common sense ... as in "Golly gee whiz, since humans are mammals, maybe insulin from other mammals - such as cows and pigs - will work in humans. Let's try it." A pretty basic idea, really.
I gave you that way, way, way, way back: Cow and pig insulin. It wasn't a creationist who thought of that. Somebody who knew about UCD said, "Hmm... maybe we can get a donations from our cousins the cows and pigs."
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Dredge writes:
Isn't it about time YOU admitted the obvious ... that YOU are in no position to call anybody "retarded"? Isn't it about time you admitted the obvious ... that you're even more retarded than I am? Seriously, if you had any self-respect, you'd turn red and slink away in shame. Feel free to come back in a month or so with the same stupid ideas. That's the way of the creationist. Just don't admit to being stupid next time. Let your stupid ideas speak for themselves.Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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