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Author Topic:   The Changing World Order
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 61 of 302 (902895)
11-28-2022 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Phat
11-28-2022 11:16 AM


Re: Back On Topic?
You advocated it earlier on this thread when you said keep transactions under 3k. Still taxable just makes it easier not to claim.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Phat, posted 11-28-2022 11:16 AM Phat has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 62 of 302 (902896)
11-28-2022 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Phat
11-28-2022 11:24 AM


Re: Back On Topic...Sort Of...
So you know nothing about Biden and digital currency, but is in the book so it must be something bad.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Phat, posted 11-28-2022 11:24 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by Phat, posted 11-28-2022 1:44 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 63 of 302 (902901)
11-28-2022 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by Taq
11-28-2022 12:23 PM


Re: Phat's adoration of the wealthy continues
Ray Dalio is quite thorough in his research about this stuff. I know that you guys think that I get far too much information from "YouTube Videos", but I am no stupid rube trolling for clickbait. (hopefully, anyway! ) Ray Dalio is respected among political, financial, and social analysts throughout the world.
8 months ago, he did an interview with Fareed Zakaria at the Council On Foreign Relations website.
quote:
The John B. Hurford Memorial Lecture was inaugurated in 2002 in memory of CFR member John B. Hurford, and features individuals who represent critical new thinking in international affairs and foreign policy.
John B. Hurford Memorial Lecture With Ray Dalio
He may not be an "official" economist, but he would never get interviews with such commentators were he simply a gold bug rube. I think that Theodoric resents him because he is a wealthy Libertarian, rather than a Democrat.
quote:
The Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) is an independent, nonpartisan membership organization, think tank, and publisher. Investor and author Ray Dalio discuss the changing world order, including the international economic environment’s trajectory, the economic and security implications of the current global geopolitical tensions, and lessons from analogous historical periods.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Nor are Democrats the best party or the only one we should have. -Phat,2022 addressing The Peanut Gallery.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Taq, posted 11-28-2022 12:23 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by Taq, posted 11-28-2022 3:06 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 67 by Theodoric, posted 11-28-2022 4:12 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 64 of 302 (902902)
11-28-2022 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Theodoric
11-28-2022 12:31 PM


Re: Back On Topic...Sort Of...
Dalio does not elaborate much on digital currencies, but in the interview with Fareed, the question was brought up. The prevailing thinking is that a new blockchain digital currency will be created, backed by Gold. Dalio didn't say this, however.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Nor are Democrats the best party or the only one we should have. -Phat,2022 addressing The Peanut Gallery.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Theodoric, posted 11-28-2022 12:31 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Taq, posted 11-28-2022 2:59 PM Phat has replied
 Message 68 by Theodoric, posted 11-28-2022 4:19 PM Phat has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 65 of 302 (902905)
11-28-2022 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Phat
11-28-2022 1:44 PM


Re: Back On Topic...Sort Of...
Phat writes:
The prevailing thinking is that a new blockchain digital currency will be created, backed by Gold.
And what would you do with this currency? Trade it in for US dollars? If so, then why not just buy gold instead of dealing with a blockchain based system that is notorious for getting hacked?
Binance hit by $100 million blockchain bridge hack • TechCrunch
Better yet, buy a diverse selection of investments spread over bonds, index funds, and a smattering of riskier stocks. Oh, and cash them out in dollars. If you keep them for more than a year you can pay the much lower long-term capital gains tax. If you make less than ~$500,000 in investments held over 1 year you only pay 15% tax, much lower than the equivalent in income tax.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Phat, posted 11-28-2022 1:44 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Phat, posted 11-29-2022 9:23 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 66 of 302 (902906)
11-28-2022 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Phat
11-28-2022 1:41 PM


Re: Phat's adoration of the wealthy continues
Phat writes:
Ray Dalio is quite thorough in his research about this stuff. I know that you guys think that I get far too much information from "YouTube Videos", but I am no stupid rube trolling for clickbait.
You can be as thorough as you like, but still get it wrong. Like I said earlier, you are much better of learning what the consensus is among economists instead of relying on one dude who isn't an economist.
He may not be an "official" economist, . . .
Exactly. Would you go to someone for health care if they weren't an "official" MD, or a dentist who was not an "official" dentist? Better yet, would you rely on a single economist? I wouldn't. I want to know what the consensus is, and why.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Phat, posted 11-28-2022 1:41 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 67 of 302 (902913)
11-28-2022 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Phat
11-28-2022 1:41 PM


Re: Phat's adoration of the wealthy continues
I have no resentment for him. He is out of his league. The book has been shown by knowledgeable critics to be dross. Just because he is a rich dude does not make him.an expert on world affairs and economics.
Ray Dalio is respected among political, financial, and social analysts throughout the world
Easily said. He is a billionaire. Of course people blow smoke up his ass.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Phat, posted 11-28-2022 1:41 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 68 of 302 (902914)
11-28-2022 4:19 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Phat
11-28-2022 1:44 PM


Re: Back On Topic...Sort Of...
The prevailing thinking is that a new blockchain digital currency will be created, backed by Gold. Dalio didn't say this, however.
Who said this? How would it work? Blockchain backed by gold seems to antithesis of what crypto is. Who is going to provide the gold? If it is backed by a set amount of gold then the value of the currency will be equal to the amount if gold backing it. It will have an extremely small base as no one has or can acquire enough gold to back a currency.
Unless maybe it is Liechtenstein.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Phat, posted 11-28-2022 1:44 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by Phat, posted 11-29-2022 10:08 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 69 of 302 (902950)
11-29-2022 9:23 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by Taq
11-28-2022 2:59 PM


Long Range Planning
My long-range thinking and planning is that the dollar will tank...within 5 years at the most.
I am fully legal in my investments at this point in time. The silver coins which I bought were $20.00 spot and I paid $27.00 for them. As of now, they have no capital gains.
IF I am wrong in my future assessment of the dollar's demise, I still believe that I will eventually recoup the commodity investment.
I am watching a good documentary based on our conversations regarding capital gains.
The Silent Killer of the Middle Class | Tax Evasion | ENDEVR Documentary
I now am under no illusion that I am even middle class anymore. I earn under $30,000.00 a year. In the documentary, one gentleman from Vancouver moved to London as a Tax Haven. The Feds caught up with him and his defense was that he was not evading anything. He was simply redistributing assets, a process that he called "Tax Efficiency". The Feds responded that what he called efficiency, they might call avoidance.
If my silver investment(cost me $10k and is worth 7K at current value) ever gained in value, it would likely only allow me to break even unless the dollar totally tanked and silver went up 5 times (such as many of the clever YouTube "click bait" videos assert)
Theodoric writes:
We already know that Phat thinks it is ok to cheat on taxes.
I have never said that it is ok to cheat. In the video, the authorities said to one defendant at one point "we do not insinuate that what you are doing is illegal. We are suggesting that it is immoral."
These defendants were each worth over $100,000.00 which puts them far out of my league. All that I have suggested is that a man in my position, (63 and about to retire, net worth under 30K) should have no reason to worry about tax evasion.
Phat, earlier writes:
One can legally avoid capital gains if one sells small amounts of commodities at a time.
pro-government liberal, Tanypteryx writes:
Only if you are a tax cheat.
Again, this documentary seems to suggest that there is a threshold. If one had $7k worth of silver, paid 10K for it, and the price rose to $40.00 oz (net profit 4k) only an authoritarian nazi would insist that the government had a right to $1000.00 of your profits. It is not immoral to be efficient with your finances if your very livelihood depends on them. The basic question, then is what is fair.
This is one of my basic gripes about the authoritarianism of the current system as it is being overhauled. the small fish get caught up in the net designed to catch bigger fish.
If an old retiree can't rely on social security, WTF are they supposed to do?
Of course, these questions are moot if you all think that Ray Dalio is "no economist" and is a hated billionaire. Ask yourselves what it is that you do to avoid taxes. How about political contributions? How about charity? And can any of us really think that Dalio and his accountants don't do the same thing on a larger scale?
Taq writes:
Better yet, buy a diverse selection of investments spread over bonds, index funds, and a smattering of riskier stocks. Oh, and cash them out in dollars. If you keep them for more than a year you can pay the much lower long-term capital gains tax. If you make less than ~$500,000 in investments held over 1 year you only pay 15% tax, much lower than the equivalent in income tax.
I think that Taq has the rightTactic!

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Nor are Democrats the best party or the only one we should have. -Phat,2022 addressing The Peanut Gallery.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Taq, posted 11-28-2022 2:59 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by Theodoric, posted 11-29-2022 10:31 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 72 by Taq, posted 11-29-2022 11:31 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 70 of 302 (902953)
11-29-2022 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by Theodoric
11-28-2022 4:19 PM


Re: Back On Topic...Sort Of...
Theo writes:
Who said this?
There are already gold-backed cryptocurrencies. What we are talking about, however, is a Federal Reserve Digital Currency and the discussion surrounding it.
quote:
The U.S. CBDC will be backed and controlled by the Federal Reserve. The central bank will issue the digital currency, and it will be accessible through digital wallets from intermediaries such as banks.
Basically, this argument hinges on whether an investor should trust
1)Government
2)Banks
3) The Federal Reserve
There are pros and cons to these issues. Many people these days are considering investments outside of
1)Government oversight (control)
2)Banks and the honesty and integrity of said institutions
3) Does the Federal Reserve know what they are doing any more than does a man such as Ray Dalio? None of you will watch the video, so I guess I will have to become knowledgeable about the argument. I'm still waiting for the book.
Theo writes:
Blockchain backed by gold seems to (be the) antithesis of what crypto is.
And yet it is already happening.
Top 6 Gold-Backed Cryptocurrency For 2022
quote:
Here is the list of well-known cryptocurrencies backed by gold:
Tether Gold (XAUT)
DigixGlobal (DGX)
PAX Gold (PAXG)
Gold Coin (GLC)
Perth Mint Gold Token (PMGT)
Meld
Personally, I'm no fan of Cryptocurrencies and am scared of a FedCoin (or) a FedCrypto. It will essentially become a fiat-crypto, backed by the Federal Reserve and (they claim) the full faith of the people. Many of us doubt the integrity and/or wisdom of the Fed. They helped cause the Great Depression, for example. Methinks that many of you are scared to NOT trust the system since unified trust seems to equate with a unified party, ideology, and method.
Billionaires fear government control of their assets. An authoritarian government could raise taxes to 80% for them, in a crisis. The question, however, is what fate awaits the little fish?

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Nor are Democrats the best party or the only one we should have. -Phat,2022 addressing The Peanut Gallery.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Theodoric, posted 11-28-2022 4:19 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by Taq, posted 11-29-2022 3:02 PM Phat has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


(3)
Message 71 of 302 (902958)
11-29-2022 10:31 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by Phat
11-29-2022 9:23 AM


Re: Long Range Planning
If you make 1k in an investment and you sell that investment you owe taxes on 1k. You made a profit, it is income. It is taxable. That is how taxation works. There are many other reasons, income level, deductions, how long you held asset, that it may not be fully or at all taxable. You truly have no clue how taxation works why.
Done here. You prefer youtubers to an actual evidence based conversation.
My wife and I do well. Alas, we are in a place that we do cannot afford investments that would decrease ou tax burden, but make enough to pay a lot of tax. You know how I feel about this? I feel great. I see the wonderful society my taxes support. I have family members that are on various types of gov't assistance. My taxes support that and I do not have to deal with the issues every day because of the gov't support

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Phat, posted 11-29-2022 9:23 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


(4)
Message 72 of 302 (902973)
11-29-2022 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by Phat
11-29-2022 9:23 AM


Re: Long Range Planning
Phat writes:
My long-range thinking and planning is that the dollar will tank...within 5 years at the most.
If history has shown us anything, if the dollar tanks then so too will other currencies.
There is also a silver lining to the dollar tanking. Suddenly, our exports are cheaper for other countries. This would increase profits from exports and increase profits from manufacturing. Imports would be more expensive which would incentivize people to buy US.
This is why normal business cycles are actually healthy. Recessions get rid of bloated companies and reward streamlined and efficient companies. Dips in the dollar increase profits from exports and support domestic manufacturing. This sets the foundation for future booms in the economy. By preventing natural cycles of recessions and booms we are propping up bloated and inefficient economic systems. One could also argue that trying to stop recessions only makes them worse when they inevitably occur.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Phat, posted 11-29-2022 9:23 AM Phat has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


(3)
Message 73 of 302 (902996)
11-29-2022 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by Phat
11-29-2022 10:08 AM


Re: Back On Topic...Sort Of...
Phat writes:
Basically, this argument hinges on whether an investor should trust
1)Government
2)Banks
3) The Federal Reserve
You shouldn't fully trust any institution, but I would rather deal with those three agencies than the current crypto market. Have you seen what has happened with FTX? Does any cryptocurrency guarantee to insure $250,000 of your deposit? Is your bank running a Ponzi scheme like FTX with little to no oversight or regulation?
3) Does the Federal Reserve know what they are doing any more than does a man such as Ray Dalio?
Would you be able to determine who is more knowledgeable about the economy?
Many of us doubt the integrity and/or wisdom of the Fed. They helped cause the Great Depression, for example. Methinks that many of you are scared to NOT trust the system since unified trust seems to equate with a unified party, ideology, and method.
The one upside is that the Fed is accountable to the people of the US. They don't spend all of your money and then hideout on a Caribbean island to escape accountability, like the former head of FTX is doing right now. Would you prefer a system where no one is accountable to people like you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Phat, posted 11-29-2022 10:08 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Phat, posted 12-04-2022 4:10 PM Taq has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 499 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 74 of 302 (903119)
12-04-2022 2:37 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Phat
11-27-2022 3:34 PM


Re: Phat's adoration of the wealthy continues
Phat writes:
Now I suppose you will bring up the philosophy of how a rising tide lifts all boats.
It does. Are you going to try to argue that it doesn't?
Phat writes:
Let's say that people in the US were actually starving.
No need to pretend. They are.
Phat writes:
Let's say the government (of, by and for the people, right?) mandated 60% taxes across the board. My point is that you would consider it a fair game (and legal if your 3 peeps were in power)
It would be fair. I don't know what you mean about "my" 3 peeps.
Phat writes:
You will now say how dare I prefer to have a private property while my neighbors starve.
I have said that to you. How DARE you?
Phat writes:
Feeding them is up to me...not to a kum ba yah government.
But you're not doing it. You're the priest and the Levite who avoided helping the man that the Good Samaritan eventually helped. Do you understand that the Samaritan is the good guy in that story?
Phat writes:
You once thought satan had a bum rap!
Read the Book of Job. Satan is God's minion.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Phat, posted 11-27-2022 3:34 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 499 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 75 of 302 (903121)
12-04-2022 2:42 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Phat
11-27-2022 8:49 PM


Re: capital gains
Phat writes:
Bidens push for digital currency...
We already have digital currency. Where have you been for the past forty years?
Phat writes:
...may mean that even small transactions can be tracked.
I have told you before, when my brother died, we had access to his bank statements. Every cup of coffee he bought at Tim Hortons was on there.
And why not? It would be dishonest for you to hide your financial transactions. That's how they got Al Capone.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Phat, posted 11-27-2022 8:49 PM Phat has not replied

  
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