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Author Topic:   Rebuttal To Creationists - "Since We Can't Directly Observe Evolution..."
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8536
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 2341 of 2932 (902948)
11-29-2022 9:07 AM
Reply to: Message 2340 by Kleinman
11-29-2022 7:51 AM


Re: Creationist Thermodynamics
That's all you can come up with to explain how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail, while I explain it.
No you don't explain it. Your work is bull and has been rejected. Your papers are bogus. Your explanations proven false.
You are a religious nutjob spouting stupidity. No one believes you. You explain nothing.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2340 by Kleinman, posted 11-29-2022 7:51 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2342 by Kleinman, posted 11-29-2022 9:17 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 357 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 2342 of 2932 (902949)
11-29-2022 9:17 AM
Reply to: Message 2341 by AZPaul3
11-29-2022 9:07 AM


Re: Creationist Thermodynamics
Kleinman:
That's all you can come up with to explain how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail, while I explain it.
AZPaul3:
No you don't explain it. Your work is bull and has been rejected. Your papers are bogus. Your explanations proven false.

You are a religious nutjob spouting stupidity. No one believes you. You explain nothing.

Yeah, right, you are the perfect example of scientific logic, and your explanation of drug resistance and why cancer treatment fails is without fault, except it doesn't exist. Here's the correct explanation for how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail. For a single selection pressure:
The basic science and mathematics of random mutation and natural selection
And for multiple simultaneous selection pressures:
The mathematics of random mutation and natural selection for multiple simultaneous selection pressures and the evolution of antimicrobial drug resistance
AZPaul3's bubble has burst and he now has to find another reason to be an atheist, a very dry atheist.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2341 by AZPaul3, posted 11-29-2022 9:07 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2343 by AZPaul3, posted 11-29-2022 9:27 AM Kleinman has replied
 Message 2351 by Taq, posted 11-29-2022 10:42 AM Kleinman has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8536
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 2343 of 2932 (902951)
11-29-2022 9:27 AM
Reply to: Message 2342 by Kleinman
11-29-2022 9:17 AM


Re: Creationist Thermodynamics
Here's the correct explanation for how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail.
Liar. Charlatan. Fraud.
Your ignorant scratchings mean nothing. No one believes your crap.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2342 by Kleinman, posted 11-29-2022 9:17 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2344 by Kleinman, posted 11-29-2022 9:44 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 357 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 2344 of 2932 (902952)
11-29-2022 9:44 AM
Reply to: Message 2343 by AZPaul3
11-29-2022 9:27 AM


Re: Creationist Thermodynamics
Kleinman:
Here's the correct explanation for how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail.
AZPaul3:
Liar. Charlatan. Fraud.

Your ignorant scratchings mean nothing. No one believes your crap.

AZPaul3 can't explain how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail but can explain how reptiles evolve into birds and fish evolve into mammals. Every mathematically incompetent person believes that. But here's how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail. For a single selection pressure:
The basic science and mathematics of random mutation and natural selection
And for multiple simultaneous selection pressures:
The mathematics of random mutation and natural selection for multiple simultaneous selection pressures and the evolution of antimicrobial drug resistance
That's how reality works and it bursts your bubble, very dry atheist. You had better get used to it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2343 by AZPaul3, posted 11-29-2022 9:27 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2345 by AZPaul3, posted 11-29-2022 10:10 AM Kleinman has replied
 Message 2346 by Dredge, posted 11-29-2022 10:14 AM Kleinman has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8536
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 2345 of 2932 (902954)
11-29-2022 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 2344 by Kleinman
11-29-2022 9:44 AM


Re: Creationist Thermodynamics
But here's how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail.
Liar. Charlatan. Fraud.
Your papers are bogus and have been rejected.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2344 by Kleinman, posted 11-29-2022 9:44 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2347 by Kleinman, posted 11-29-2022 10:28 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 2346 of 2932 (902955)
11-29-2022 10:14 AM
Reply to: Message 2344 by Kleinman
11-29-2022 9:44 AM


Re: Creationist Thermodynamics
Kleinman writes:
AZPaul3 can't explain how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail but can explain how reptiles evolve into birds and fish evolve into mammals.
LOL!!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2344 by Kleinman, posted 11-29-2022 9:44 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2348 by Kleinman, posted 11-29-2022 10:29 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 2622 by ringo, posted 12-17-2022 12:25 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 357 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 2347 of 2932 (902956)
11-29-2022 10:28 AM
Reply to: Message 2345 by AZPaul3
11-29-2022 10:10 AM


Re: Creationist Thermodynamics
Kleinman:
But here's how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail.
AZPaul3:
Liar. Charlatan. Fraud.

Your papers are bogus and have been rejected.

That's why the peer-reviewers and editors at Statistics in Medicine accepted and published them. They wanted to know how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail, not like some very dry atheist imagines how evolution happens. For a single selection pressure:
The basic science and mathematics of random mutation and natural selection
And for multiple simultaneous selection pressures:
The mathematics of random mutation and natural selection for multiple simultaneous selection pressures and the evolution of antimicrobial drug resistance
It doesn't work like some very dry atheist imagines evolution would work. They wanted a real explanation not some story about reptiles evolving into birds and fish evolving into mammals.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2345 by AZPaul3, posted 11-29-2022 10:10 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2354 by AZPaul3, posted 11-29-2022 10:58 AM Kleinman has not replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 357 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 2348 of 2932 (902957)
11-29-2022 10:29 AM
Reply to: Message 2346 by Dredge
11-29-2022 10:14 AM


Re: Creationist Thermodynamics
Kleinman:
AZPaul3 can't explain how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail but can explain how reptiles evolve into birds and fish evolve into mammals.
Dredge:
LOL!!

He does have a very strange imagination. It is shared by so many biologists and that's why they have failed to explain how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail. It really is a harmful thing they have done to society.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2346 by Dredge, posted 11-29-2022 10:14 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10045
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 2349 of 2932 (902959)
11-29-2022 10:36 AM
Reply to: Message 2335 by Kleinman
11-28-2022 6:58 PM


Re: Creationist Thermodynamics
Kleinman writes:
Taq, you are a stupid ass that doesn't know a thing about Markov processes which are entropy processes or the thermodynamics of biological evolution.
Apparently, we know a lot more than you do because you can't address anything we have posted.
You can't even understand how the evolution of phage resistance is descent with modification.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2335 by Kleinman, posted 11-28-2022 6:58 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2353 by Kleinman, posted 11-29-2022 10:52 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10045
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 2350 of 2932 (902960)
11-29-2022 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 2337 by Kleinman
11-28-2022 7:10 PM


Re: Creationist Thermodynamics
Kleinman writes:
Go for it, prove UCD with phages.
So you are saying that descent with modification in the Lenski and Kishony experiments is proof of UCD?
I showed you that descent with modification is a disordering process that can be modeled with a Markov chain and that a Markov chain is an entropy-producing process.
No, you didn't. You simply asserted it. You have no evidence, and zero understanding of how thermodynamics works.
Which Markov processes don't produce entropy and when is entropy not a thermodynamic variable?
Entropy is not a thermodynamic variable when it is used in information theory, as explained already. Those are analogous processes, not homologous.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2337 by Kleinman, posted 11-28-2022 7:10 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2352 by Theodoric, posted 11-29-2022 10:45 AM Taq has not replied
 Message 2355 by Kleinman, posted 11-29-2022 11:05 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10045
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 2351 of 2932 (902962)
11-29-2022 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 2342 by Kleinman
11-29-2022 9:17 AM


Re: Creationist Thermodynamics
Kleinman writes:
For a single selection pressure:
The basic science and mathematics of random mutation and natural selection
quote:
What this empirical example demonstrates is that the sequence of mutations must occur in an order ofever increasing fitness in order for the evolutionary process to have a reasonable chance of occurring.
That is not true for sexual populations. In sexual populations, beneficial alleles fix independently and are moved from separate genetic backgrounds into the same genetic background. Of course, you will never address this.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2342 by Kleinman, posted 11-29-2022 9:17 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2358 by Kleinman, posted 11-29-2022 11:12 AM Taq has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9143
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 2352 of 2932 (902963)
11-29-2022 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 2350 by Taq
11-29-2022 10:38 AM


Re: Creationist Thermodynamics
I think you may have to give definitions of analogous and homologous. Or at least examples. Like sexual vs asexual, he might not know what the terms mean.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2350 by Taq, posted 11-29-2022 10:38 AM Taq has not replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 357 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 2353 of 2932 (902964)
11-29-2022 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 2349 by Taq
11-29-2022 10:36 AM


Re: Creationist Thermodynamics
Kleinman:
Taq, you are a stupid ass that doesn't know a thing about Markov processes which are entropy processes or the thermodynamics of biological evolution.
Taq:
Apparently, we know a lot more than you do because you can't address anything we have posted.

You can't even understand how the evolution of phage resistance is descent with modification.

Go ahead virologist that knows everything about evolution except how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail. Tell us how phages make UCD possible. And then you can give us your wisdom about Markov processes, and the second law of thermodynamics. Tell us how some Markov processes don't apply to the second law of thermodynamics. You will post zero examples of that just like you post zero examples of how biologists have explained how drug resistance evolves and cancer treatments fail. Since you got your recent epiphany about Markov processes, perhaps you want to learn about DNA evolution using Markov chains.
Models of DNA evolution - Wikipedia
Let's see how much you know, so far it has been very little and that has been wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2349 by Taq, posted 11-29-2022 10:36 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2359 by Taq, posted 11-29-2022 11:19 AM Kleinman has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8536
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 2354 of 2932 (902965)
11-29-2022 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 2347 by Kleinman
11-29-2022 10:28 AM


Re: Creationist Thermodynamics
That's why the peer-reviewers and editors at Statistics in Medicine accepted and published them.
Liar. Your BS was not reviewed. It was published because you paid them.
Again, you are a liar, a charlatan and a fraud.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2347 by Kleinman, posted 11-29-2022 10:28 AM Kleinman has not replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 357 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 2355 of 2932 (902966)
11-29-2022 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 2350 by Taq
11-29-2022 10:38 AM


Re: Creationist Thermodynamics
Kleinman:
Go for it, prove UCD with phages.
Taq:
So you are saying that descent with modification in the Lenski and Kishony experiments is proof of UCD?

You are confused, it takes a billion replications in each experiment for each adaptive step.
Kleinman:
I showed you that descent with modification is a disordering process that can be modeled with a Markov chain and that a Markov chain is an entropy-producing process.
Taq:
No, you didn't. You simply asserted it. You have no evidence, and zero understanding of how thermodynamics works.

That's why you are an idiot. If descent with modification goes on, eventually the DNA will be random sequences. And here are a few examples from a search using "Markov entropy"
Maximum-entropy Markov model - Wikipedia
(PDF) Entropy: The Markov Ordering Approach | George G Judge - Academia.edu
Maximum-Entropy Markov Model
https://www.sciencedirect.com/...ticle/pii/S2352220814000467
Entropy rate - Wikipedia
https://uweb.engr.arizona.edu/...tropy_of_markov_sources.pdf
...
You don't know what a Markov process is, you are just blowing hot air.
Kleinman:
Which Markov processes don't produce entropy and when is entropy not a thermodynamic variable?
Taq:
Entropy is not a thermodynamic variable when it is used in information theory, as explained already. Those are analogous processes, not homologous.

You are an idiot and don't know what you are talking about. You dummy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2350 by Taq, posted 11-29-2022 10:38 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2356 by AZPaul3, posted 11-29-2022 11:08 AM Kleinman has not replied
 Message 2357 by Taq, posted 11-29-2022 11:10 AM Kleinman has replied

  
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