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Author Topic:   Evangelical Support Group
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 320 of 331 (902507)
11-24-2022 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 319 by ringo
11-24-2022 10:53 AM


Re: If you say so
Phat writes:
There really IS a liberal agenda.
ringo writes:
It isn't a "liberal" agenda. It's a decent agenda. All decent people support it.
Phat writes:
YOU really ARE authoritarian s.
ringo writes:
I asked you before what's "authoritarian" about it. You didn't answer. How about an honest answer?
OK. Lets start with the Oxford Dictionary.
au·thor·i·tar·i·an·ism--
noun: authoritarianism
1) the enforcement or advocacy of strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom.
2) lack of concern for the wishes or opinions of others.
You can employ your euphimism of "decent agenda" all you like, but the fact is you prefer equality over freedom. If any child in the world were hungry, you would consider it a sacred duty for the government (a liberal progressive one, likely eventually a global one if the antichrist spirit gets its way) to tax or utilize my assets in order to feed them. That is, by definition, the enforcement or advocacy of strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom.
I prefer the right to control (and distribute) my own private property and my own private money. The liberal authoritarians HATE that! Which, again, is why we have a political division in this country.
Ray Dalio explains it all rather well in this video, which I doubt any of you will watch. He DOES know what he is talking about, however.
And Theodoric knows less about economic realities than he imagines.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 319 by ringo, posted 11-24-2022 10:53 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 321 by ringo, posted 11-24-2022 1:19 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 322 of 331 (902532)
11-24-2022 11:15 PM
Reply to: Message 321 by ringo
11-24-2022 1:19 PM


Re: If you say so
ringo writes:
I do prefer people to eat equally instead of having the freedom to starve. That is not authoritarian
I like how you frame your argument. *cough* appeal to emotionalism*cough*. Not that I need to defend myself, but I am far from being a "Mr. Potter" or an "Ebenezer Scrooge" just because I lean conservative. My argument is that yes, an administration (imagine a global government) that insists upon control and distribution of ALL finances held by ALL private individuals in the context of feeding everybody would in fact be authoritarian. And before you all start cussing me out, I am NOT against helping the poor. I DO help many of them, more than you think or imagine. My argument centers on whether giving and providing for ALL of the people (be it a nation or a world) *should* be mandated by government (be it local, national, or global) rather than left up to individual decisions. My argument is that any mandatory system beyond taxation for basic services (which we have now) is authoritarian and SHOULD be opposed. As I said before,
Phat writes:
If any child in the world were hungry, you would consider it a sacred duty for the government (a liberal progressive one, likely eventually a global one if the antichrist spirit gets its way) to tax or utilize my assets in order to feed them.
Social Justice ringo writes:
Yes. A thousand times yes.
And you would chide me for "not doing what Jesus mandated I do". You don't believe the man/God ever existed, yet you always roll Him out of the archives whenever you want to support your authoritarian liberal agenda! You won't get all of the votes on this one unless you keep letting enough hungry and desperate people (without background checks) into the country simply to swing the vote perpetually to your party, ideology, and "side".
See, I know where this all is going to end up.
ringo writes:
If it could be explained well... ("Y'see, Lord, I had to step on that homeless man's face because...") and if you're half as smart as you claim to be, you should be able to explain it yourself.
You have not refuted my argument that liberals are (also) authoritarians. You simply blame the conservatives for being the WRONG authority. And since none of you sense that God is real, you justify liberal authoritarianism as necessary because
quote:
we unbelievers HAVE to do it. Our consciences demand no less.
. The problem is that "you guys" make up a little more than 50% of the population---hardly a mandate for such a "necessity".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 321 by ringo, posted 11-24-2022 1:19 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 323 by nwr, posted 11-24-2022 11:36 PM Phat has replied
 Message 327 by ringo, posted 11-25-2022 11:17 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 324 of 331 (902537)
11-25-2022 1:44 AM
Reply to: Message 323 by nwr
11-24-2022 11:36 PM


Re: If you say so
I am making it up to a degree. It has not yet actually happened, since the money we now pay is adequate to address most bipartisan issues. Addressing ringo specifically, I find that he advocates doing whatever is necessary, My issue is that he thinks that in a crisis, everyone's money is fair game for use. In other places, such an action is known as a bail-in.
In 2008, the banks and financial institutions were bailed out. Some think that if a similar crisis occurred nowadays, the solution would have to be a bail-in since the Fed no longer has the money for a bail-out. The public collectively does, however.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 323 by nwr, posted 11-24-2022 11:36 PM nwr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 325 by nwr, posted 11-25-2022 7:32 AM Phat has replied
 Message 326 by Theodoric, posted 11-25-2022 10:57 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 328 of 331 (902886)
11-28-2022 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 325 by nwr
11-25-2022 7:32 AM


Re: If you say so
nwr writes:
And I'll remind you that it is the Republicans who are wanting to steal the social security trust fund and give it away to the very rich.
Seriously? If so that is evil, evil, evil. Link me up with some data to support this.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Nor are Democrats the best party or the only one we should have. -Phat,2022 addressing The Peanut Gallery.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 325 by nwr, posted 11-25-2022 7:32 AM nwr has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 329 by Theodoric, posted 11-28-2022 1:20 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 330 of 331 (902903)
11-28-2022 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 329 by Theodoric
11-28-2022 1:20 PM


Consensus. Is It Possible?
I do read the news and I do use google but I do need to brush up on my political ideology(ideologies?) since unlike many Democrats and Republicans both, I don't simply listen to my own peanut gallery and glean my ideologies off of soundbites from the news, videos, and newspaper commentary. I strive to be a moderate, but I'm not sure which ideological path will help (all of us, I suppose) the most.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Nor are Democrats the best party or the only one we should have. -Phat,2022 addressing The Peanut Gallery.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 329 by Theodoric, posted 11-28-2022 1:20 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 331 by PaulK, posted 11-28-2022 2:30 PM Phat has not replied

  
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