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Author Topic:   The Changing World Order
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 46 of 302 (902878)
11-28-2022 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by Theodoric
11-27-2022 9:59 PM


Back On Topic...Sort Of...
Phat writes:
Biden's push for the digital currency may mean that even small transactions can be tracked.
Theodoric writes:
WTF? Please send me the source for this. I think you may be misunderstanding something. His EO was to start exploring the possibilities and what they would mean. There is by no means a push. Do you think the government should put its head in the sand and pretend that this is not an issue that they should know and prepare for?
I agree that the government needs to regulate tax cheats, but it seems like a far bigger issue than Authoritarian Democrats trying to control Republicans who are moving their assets out of the country. It's fair game to discuss digital currency in this thread. Lets talk about that. I will do a bit more research. I'm still re-reading Dalios book, which I have so far only heard on audio.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Nor are Democrats the best party or the only one we should have. -Phat,2022 addressing The Peanut Gallery.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Theodoric, posted 11-27-2022 9:59 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by Taq, posted 11-28-2022 11:32 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 62 by Theodoric, posted 11-28-2022 12:31 PM Phat has replied
 Message 77 by ringo, posted 12-04-2022 2:47 PM Phat has replied
 Message 112 by kjsimons, posted 12-07-2022 7:27 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 47 of 302 (902879)
11-28-2022 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Phat
11-26-2022 2:54 AM


Re: Phat's adoration of the wealthy continues
Phat writes:
It makes no sense for gold to be pegged to the dollar since the dollar can be and is inflated through the creation of more of it on demand. the dollar was pegged to gold in the twenties when FDR called in all of the gold and revalued the gold from $20.00 an ounce to $35.00 an ounce.
Why should gold be different than any other mined mineral or element? Gold is pegged to the dollar like every other thing we dig up from the ground. The value of gold is determined by how much people are willing to pay for it.
Each Empire (Dutch, British, and American) has at one time had the dominant global reserve currency. The Dutch Guilder crashed when the empire did. The British Pound also tanked at the end of WW II when Britain could not pay its debts. A similar fate awaits the Dollar, although the government is trying to keep the Dollar club afloat globally. It is at its high right now, coincidentally as war is being waged in Ukraine. You of course won't believe that the almighty dollar can crash, but we have inflated it and debased it for far too long.
Any country or economy could crash and burn, including China. No one is saying that the US is invulnerable. What we are all disagreeing with is that the US is vulnerable because we use a fiat currency.
Is the world going to switch the Chinese Yuan? Not for the foreseeable future. Who would want to switch to a currency controlled by a country no one trusts?
At the moment, the US is the superpower that most people trust. We have an economy that is open and somewhat transparent. We share the same values as other important economies. Would you want to trade in your US dollars for Chinese Yuan?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Phat, posted 11-26-2022 2:54 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Phat, posted 11-28-2022 11:52 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


(2)
Message 48 of 302 (902880)
11-28-2022 11:32 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by Phat
11-28-2022 11:24 AM


Re: Back On Topic...Sort Of...
Phat writes:
Authoritarian Democrats trying to control Republicans
What in the world are you talking about?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Phat, posted 11-28-2022 11:24 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by Theodoric, posted 11-28-2022 12:28 PM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


(1)
Message 49 of 302 (902881)
11-28-2022 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Phat
11-27-2022 3:34 PM


Re: Phat's adoration of the wealthy continues
Phat writes:
Lets say we had a bad economic downturn. Let's say that people in the US were actually starving.
People in the US are starving right now, and we have a welfare system that they can use to buy food. Ever heard of food stamps? WIC?
Also, how do you think our country made it through the Great Depression? That's right, government programs provided food.
quote:
For four years during the Depression, the first Food Stamp Program fed 20 million people at one time or another in nearly half of the total counties in the nation. The cost was $262 million – the equivalent of over $3 billion in 2007 dollars.
The Food Stamp Program is Revived in the 60s
How was it paid for? By a progressive tax that taxed the rich more than the poor.
Phat writes:
Let's say the government (of, by and for the people, right?) mandated 60% taxes across the board.
The American people have long supported progressive tax rates. Even Republicans.
quote:
Congress raised taxes again in 1932 during the Great Depression from 25 percent to 63 percent on the top earners.
History of Federal Income Tax Rates: 1913 – 2023
The experiment has already been run.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Phat, posted 11-27-2022 3:34 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Phat, posted 11-28-2022 11:50 AM Taq has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 50 of 302 (902882)
11-28-2022 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Theodoric
11-25-2022 4:18 PM


Re: Phat's adoration of the wealthy continues
Theodoric writes:
You understand nothing about economics and monetary theory.
The question is not what you or I understand. The question is what Dalio understands.
Until I read his book in its entirety, I can't form a cognizant appraisal of his theories in regard to where the US Economy and the almighty dollar are heading. I did watch an abridged presentation of his book. He seems to make sense to me. I can't simply go off of a Wall Street Journal Editorial that questions him, but I will say that it likely would be in the interests of Wall Street to debunk him. They need no panic from informed gold bugs.
We can discuss the transcript of this video for now. Unlike many YouTube videos, it is not simply clickbait.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Nor are Democrats the best party or the only one we should have. -Phat,2022 addressing The Peanut Gallery.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Theodoric, posted 11-25-2022 4:18 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by Taq, posted 11-28-2022 12:23 PM Phat has replied
 Message 59 by Theodoric, posted 11-28-2022 12:26 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 51 of 302 (902883)
11-28-2022 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by Taq
11-28-2022 11:39 AM


Re: Phat's adoration of the wealthy continues
The difference between the Great Depression and now is the debt levels. The US and the world cannot keep adding to an ever-growing debt even if it does feed people. Otherwise, everything and everyone will be at risk. Do you disagree?

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Nor are Democrats the best party or the only one we should have. -Phat,2022 addressing The Peanut Gallery.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Taq, posted 11-28-2022 11:39 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Taq, posted 11-28-2022 12:16 PM Phat has replied
 Message 58 by Theodoric, posted 11-28-2022 12:24 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 52 of 302 (902884)
11-28-2022 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by Taq
11-28-2022 11:30 AM


Differences between 1920's policies and now
Taq writes:
What we are all disagreeing with is that the US is vulnerable because we use a fiat currency.
Fiat currencies are a fact of life. I agree with what Percy and Theodoric have insinuated earlier in that the world will never return to a strict gold standard. The issue is what backs the money...not just the dollar but every other fiat currency globally. Let us examine Global debt and tie that in with modern economic theory versus what Dalio is claiming.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Nor are Democrats the best party or the only one we should have. -Phat,2022 addressing The Peanut Gallery.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Taq, posted 11-28-2022 11:30 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Taq, posted 11-28-2022 12:13 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


(1)
Message 53 of 302 (902885)
11-28-2022 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Phat
11-28-2022 11:52 AM


Re: Differences between 1920's policies and now
Phat writes:
The issue is what backs the money...not just the dollar but every other fiat currency globally.
Trust. A currency is as good as the trust people have in it. That is why people would rather use US dollars instead of Chinese yuan. While every currency is manipulated in some way, people trust that the US will be smart about how they shepherd their currency.
Stability is another factor. No one wants to use a currency that has big swings or is originated by an unstable country. It's hard to find a more stable country or more stable economy than the US since WW II.
Size is another factor. The larger the economy that backs a currency the better.
Phat writes:
Let us examine Global debt and tie that in with modern economic theory versus what Dalio is claiming.
The US debt is a bit high, but in line with other comparable economies.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Phat, posted 11-28-2022 11:52 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


(2)
Message 54 of 302 (902887)
11-28-2022 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Phat
11-28-2022 11:50 AM


Re: Phat's adoration of the wealthy continues
Phat writes:
The US and the world cannot keep adding to an ever-growing debt even if it does feed people. Otherwise, everything and everyone will be at risk. Do you disagree?
I agree that debt can't increase forever. However, there is no reason why we can't spend less and still feed people. For example, the US spends a massive portion of its budget on the military. In fact, the US spends as much on defense as the next 20 countries combined. It seems rather silly to say that we can't spend a few billion on feeding people but we can spends 10's of billions on an aircraft carrier when we already have more than all other countries combined.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Phat, posted 11-28-2022 11:50 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Phat, posted 11-28-2022 12:19 PM Taq has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 55 of 302 (902888)
11-28-2022 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Taq
11-28-2022 12:16 PM


Re: Phat's adoration of the wealthy continues
I agree.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Taq, posted 11-28-2022 12:16 PM Taq has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 56 of 302 (902890)
11-28-2022 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Phat
11-28-2022 11:18 AM


Re: Phat's adoration of the wealthy continues
Because I invest on stocks and know people that have invested in commodities. It is not my expertise that is why I use a professional financial planner. We are doing quite well.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Phat, posted 11-28-2022 11:18 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 57 of 302 (902891)
11-28-2022 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Phat
11-28-2022 11:44 AM


Re: Phat's adoration of the wealthy continues
Phat writes:
Until I read his book in its entirety, I can't form a cognizant appraisal of his theories in regard to where the US Economy and the almighty dollar are heading.
I think the biggest danger is forming views on the economy based on the beliefs of one person. A broader understanding of the views held by economists in general would probably be a better resource than one guy, who isn't even an economist.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Phat, posted 11-28-2022 11:44 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by Phat, posted 11-28-2022 1:41 PM Taq has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 58 of 302 (902892)
11-28-2022 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Phat
11-28-2022 11:50 AM


Re: Phat's adoration of the wealthy continues
There are many differences. There is not one thing. Economics is an extremely complex issue, but you need a simple answer for everything
Do you know what debt levels were then compared to now? Is our debt the highest now? Do you know debt vs defecir?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Phat, posted 11-28-2022 11:50 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 59 of 302 (902893)
11-28-2022 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Phat
11-28-2022 11:44 AM


Re: Phat's adoration of the wealthy continues
Yeah it is and we don't discuss videos. Read the book bring his arguments. I have already shown this dude is out of his league. A good investor does not make an economist.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Phat, posted 11-28-2022 11:44 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 60 of 302 (902894)
11-28-2022 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by Taq
11-28-2022 11:32 AM


Re: Back On Topic...Sort Of...
He has no idea. He a read a blurb on a book jacketed thinks he found the answer to all economic problems.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Taq, posted 11-28-2022 11:32 AM Taq has not replied

  
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