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Author Topic:   Rebuttal To Creationists - "Since We Can't Directly Observe Evolution..."
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 2236 of 2926 (902767)
11-27-2022 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 2228 by Kleinman
11-27-2022 1:09 PM


Re: Usable energy
Nope - not an expert, but an intelligent man who trusts the theories and the mountains of evidence of a huge number of highly intelligent scientists, rather than the religiously driven drivel of a single voice, gnashing his teeth in the wilderness.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2228 by Kleinman, posted 11-27-2022 1:09 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2240 by Kleinman, posted 11-27-2022 2:11 PM vimesey has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 2237 of 2926 (902769)
11-27-2022 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 2229 by ringo
11-27-2022 1:20 PM


Re: Kleinman Admits He's A Fraud.
(Kishoni, Lenski, Desai, oh my!)
I have just shamelessly stolen this for my own use.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2229 by ringo, posted 11-27-2022 1:20 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2242 by Kleinman, posted 11-27-2022 2:15 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 2238 of 2926 (902771)
11-27-2022 2:04 PM
Reply to: Message 2229 by ringo
11-27-2022 1:20 PM


Re: Kleinman Admits He's A Fraud.
Kleinman:
They are your imaginary links, you post them.
ringo:
Tell it to Google.

You're the one not posting your imaginary links.
ringo:
Do you understand yet that A → B and A → C are NOT the same as B → C ?
ringo:
My silliness is entertaining. My redundancy is about the same as yours (Kishoni, Lenski, Desai, oh my!)

What's worse is your evasion. Do you understand yet that A → B and A → C are NOT the same as B → C ? Unless you understand that, there's no point in you even mentioning anything about evolution.

My redundancy is about real, measureable, and repeatable examples of biological evolution. And you don't know anything about biological evolution.
Message 2230
Kleinman:
They might get all confused!
ringo:
There is no room for confusion because they have no idea where evolution is taking them (their descendants) or even that evolution is taking them anywhere.

The Kishony and Lenski bacteria are going someplace but it takes a billion replications for each adaptive step.
Message 2231
Kleinman:
The laws of thermodynamics apply in open and closed systems.
ringo:
The lawS, plural. The increase in energy when an organism eats accounts for the increase in entropy. You can't have one law without the other.

Just think how much Weight Watchers have reduce entropy.
Message 2232
Kleinman:
Tell us why the laws of thermodynamics don't apply in an open system.
ringo:
They don't apply the way you want them to because they work in combination. A process proceeds if the net free energy is positive.

Now that you are an expert in the thermodynamics of evolution, could you explain to us the evolution of drug resistance and why cancer treatments fail. What should we Google?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2229 by ringo, posted 11-27-2022 1:20 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2241 by ringo, posted 11-27-2022 2:14 PM Kleinman has replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 2239 of 2926 (902772)
11-27-2022 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 2233 by dwise1
11-27-2022 1:40 PM


Re: Usable energy
Kleinman:
Felsenstein banned me because I told him he would be held accountable for his blunders.
dwise1:
No, obviously he had banned you from Panda's Thumb for being a troll, just as you are doing here.

It currently shows that you have posted 1420 messages. Feeling very charitable at the moment, I would estimate that about twenty (20) of those message contained actual content, actually said something that might contribute to discussion. The remaining one thousand four hundred (1400) have been nothing more than garbage trolling.

Troll.

Wrong again, ye of little understanding. But since you have become an expert on the second law of thermodynamics, could you explain to us why drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail? While you are at it, give us a mathematical explanation for the Kishony and Lenski experiments. If you have trouble with that, AZPaul3 and vimesey can explain it to you, they are super duper experts on the second law of thermodynamics.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2233 by dwise1, posted 11-27-2022 1:40 PM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2245 by dwise1, posted 11-27-2022 2:33 PM Kleinman has replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 2240 of 2926 (902773)
11-27-2022 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 2236 by vimesey
11-27-2022 1:53 PM


Re: Usable energy
vimesey:
Nope - not an expert, but an intelligent man who trusts the theories and the mountains of evidence of a huge number of highly intelligent scientists, rather than the religiously driven drivel of a single voice, gnashing his teeth in the wilderness.
Of course, you are not an expert and neither is the guy that wrote that paper on the second law of thermodynamics. Otherwise, he could explain how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail. In addition, he could do the mathematics of the Kishony and Lenski experiments. He doesn't know anything about the physics and mathematics of biological evolution.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2236 by vimesey, posted 11-27-2022 1:53 PM vimesey has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2248 by AZPaul3, posted 11-27-2022 2:52 PM Kleinman has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2241 of 2926 (902774)
11-27-2022 2:14 PM
Reply to: Message 2238 by Kleinman
11-27-2022 2:04 PM


Re: Kleinman Admits He's A Fraud.
Kleinman writes:
You're the one not posting your imaginary links.
I'm not posting a link to Google, either. You should be able to find it yourself.
Kleinman writes:
My redundancy is about real, measureable, and repeatable examples of biological evolution.
Your redundant Kishony, Lenski, Desai, oh my! is about people who don't agree with you. Nobody but you has questioned my A → B and A → C are NOT the same as B → C
Kleinman writes:
And you don't know anything about biological evolution.
I know that A → B and A → C are NOT the same as B → C
Kleinman writes:
Now that you are an expert in the thermodynamics of evolution, could you explain to us the evolution of drug resistance and why cancer treatments fail.
As I have said, you're not ready for that yet. It's way over your head. Demonstrate that you understand that A → B and A → C are NOT the same as B → C and then we can go on to Page Two of the kindergarten evolution textbook.
Kleinman writes:
What should we Google?
You could start by googling "evolution for children".

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2238 by Kleinman, posted 11-27-2022 2:04 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2243 by Kleinman, posted 11-27-2022 2:18 PM ringo has replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 2242 of 2926 (902775)
11-27-2022 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 2237 by AZPaul3
11-27-2022 1:55 PM


Re: Kleinman Admits He's A Fraud.
ringo:
(Kishoni, Lenski, Desai, oh my!)
AZPaul3:
I have just shamelessly stolen this for my own use.

Too bad you don't know how any of those experiments work even though you are an expert in the second law of thermodynamics. I hope you like it dry, real dry.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2237 by AZPaul3, posted 11-27-2022 1:55 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 2243 of 2926 (902776)
11-27-2022 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 2241 by ringo
11-27-2022 2:14 PM


Re: Kleinman Admits He's A Fraud.
Kleinman:
You're the one not posting your imaginary links.
ringo:
I'm not posting a link to Google, either. You should be able to find it yourself.

That's silly. How do you find a paper written by a biologist that explains how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail? That's only in your imagination, otherwise you would have posted those links long ago.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2241 by ringo, posted 11-27-2022 2:14 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2244 by ringo, posted 11-27-2022 2:23 PM Kleinman has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2244 of 2926 (902778)
11-27-2022 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 2243 by Kleinman
11-27-2022 2:18 PM


Re: Kleinman Admits He's A Fraud.
Kleinman writes:
How do you find a paper written by a biologist that explains how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail?
I googled "how drug resistance evolves" (15,800,000 hits) and "why cancer treatments fail" (108,000,000 hits).

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2243 by Kleinman, posted 11-27-2022 2:18 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2246 by Kleinman, posted 11-27-2022 2:40 PM ringo has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(1)
Message 2245 of 2926 (902780)
11-27-2022 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 2239 by Kleinman
11-27-2022 2:05 PM


Re: Usable energy


Yet again your only response is to spew yet more troll garbage.
Did creationism break your brain? Or was it already broken so you were drawn like a fly to creationism?


Nor are we in the least bit surprised that you are terrified of answering ringo's simple question:
ringo writes:
Do you understand yet that A → B and A → C are NOT the same as B → C ?
Creationism demands of you that you believe the B → C is the same, since that is creationist dogma, and hence you must reply that they are the same lest you blaspheme against your silly creationist troll god (not to be confused with the Christian God).
But the moment you do that, you expose the fact that you are utterly ignorant of evolution and hence your blatherings about the subject are all nothing but nonsense at best and outright lies at worse.
We do not need to be experts in coprology to be able to recognize bullshit when we smell it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2239 by Kleinman, posted 11-27-2022 2:05 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2247 by Kleinman, posted 11-27-2022 2:44 PM dwise1 has replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 2246 of 2926 (902781)
11-27-2022 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 2244 by ringo
11-27-2022 2:23 PM


Re: Kleinman Admits He's A Fraud.
Kleinman:
How do you find a paper written by a biologist that explains how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail?
ringo:
I googled "how drug resistance evolves" (15,800,000 hits) and "why cancer treatments fail" (108,000,000 hits).

All you have to do is post one and you can't even do that because biologists are still trying to figure it out.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2244 by ringo, posted 11-27-2022 2:23 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2385 by ringo, posted 12-04-2022 2:06 PM Kleinman has replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 2247 of 2926 (902782)
11-27-2022 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 2245 by dwise1
11-27-2022 2:33 PM


Re: Usable energy
dwise1:
Yet again your only response is to spew yet more troll garbage.
All I have to do is ask you to explain the evolution of drug resistance and why cancer treatments fail and ask you to do the mathematics of the Kishony and Lenski experiments. You fail and you can't hide it with smilies. You don't know how biological evolution works and your posts reveal that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2245 by dwise1, posted 11-27-2022 2:33 PM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2251 by Phat, posted 11-27-2022 3:25 PM Kleinman has replied
 Message 2258 by dwise1, posted 11-27-2022 4:39 PM Kleinman has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(5)
Message 2248 of 2926 (902783)
11-27-2022 2:52 PM
Reply to: Message 2240 by Kleinman
11-27-2022 2:11 PM



Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2240 by Kleinman, posted 11-27-2022 2:11 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2249 by Kleinman, posted 11-27-2022 3:08 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 2249 of 2926 (902784)
11-27-2022 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 2248 by AZPaul3
11-27-2022 2:52 PM


AZPaul3 tries to cover up the fact that he has no idea how drug resistance evolves or why cancer treatments fail. And he certainly can't do the physics and mathematics of the Kishony and Lenski experiments no matter how many photos he posts. He is totally ignorant of the physics and mathematics of biological evolution and everyone knows it. And I hope he likes it dry, real dry.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2248 by AZPaul3, posted 11-27-2022 2:52 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2250 by Phat, posted 11-27-2022 3:21 PM Kleinman has replied
 Message 2252 by AZPaul3, posted 11-27-2022 3:45 PM Kleinman has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 2250 of 2926 (902785)
11-27-2022 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 2249 by Kleinman
11-27-2022 3:08 PM


A Simple Question
Before we go any further, I want to know about your beliefs. No math is needed for this one except for perhaps 1x1x1.
Do you believe in a higher power?
Are you aware of how Christians (myself included) sometimes conflate Gods omniscience with their own ideas and need to prop themselves up by visiting many forums, publishing a few papers, and feeling like legends in their own minds simply because nobody allows themselves to be set up to be knocked down by forcing themselves to agree with your theories? I know I do it. The day the peanut gallery agrees with me is the day I would question my own sanity.
But I DO believe in God, known through Jesus Christ and alive today. My simple question is whether you believe in Him.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Nor are Democrats the best party or the only one we should have. -Phat,2022 addressing The Peanut Gallery.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2249 by Kleinman, posted 11-27-2022 3:08 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2254 by Kleinman, posted 11-27-2022 4:32 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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