Rebuttal To Creationists - "Since We Can't Directly Observe Evolution..."

Kleinman:

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I guess that means you won't tell us of an environment with infinite carrying capacity.

Theodoric:

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I never said anything about infinite carrying capacity. Liar, dishonest, narcissistic crank.
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I hope Admin takes the lead of Panda's Thumb and deals with you.

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Everyone saw your claim of an environment with unlimited energy. You said it and everyone know it.And Admin might ban me because ignorant people like you can't understand basic thermodynamics. You are wrong in so many ways.

Theodoric:

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Another strawman.

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Aren't you going to tell us about thermodynamics? Tell us why the laws of thermodynamics don't apply in an open system. You are so brilliant. Have your so-called expert explain to us why the laws of thermodynamics don't apply in an open system.

Again we are discussing the implication of the theory on life and living systems.

I must have missed this. Regardless. The thermal excess available to the surface of this planet is orders of magnitude above utilization. You can build your model realistically with any energy gradient you desire. Not infinite, for sure, but can be realistically utilized as if it were.

Theodoric:

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Again we are discussing the implication of the theory on life and living systems.

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Too bad you don't understand the laws of thermodynamics so that you could carry on an intelligent conversation discussing those implications. Maybe your so-called expert can?

Kleinman:

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Everyone saw your claim of an environment with unlimited energy. You said it and everyone know it.

AZPaul3:

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I must have missed this. Regardless. The thermal excess available to the surface of this planet is orders of magnitude above utilization. You can build your model realistically with any energy gradient you desire. Not infinite, for sure, but can be realistically utilized as if it were.

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You missed it Message 2199.

Theodoric:

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So on Earth, the usable energy is (for all intents and purposes) unlimited.

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So, tell us how dry Lake Mead is?

Relevance?Have you heard of the Sun?

Kleinman:

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So, tell us how dry Lake Mead is?

Theodoric:

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Relevance?
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Have you heard of the Sun?

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AZPaul3 knows what I'm talking about. It has to be usable energy. Your idea is so dumb that you would think that the surface of the sun should have all kinds of life. This is one of the stupidest ideas I've heard. All you need is energy and you have life. This is stupid and immature. What other dumb ideas do you have?

Hi Paul - I found this useful article which states that in 2008, Daniel Styler showed that the earth is bathed in around one trillion times the amount of entropy flux required to support the evolution of complex life. So yes, what you say is correct.It's also a very useful run-through of how the second law of thermodynamics does indeed support the evolution of life - as well as pointing out the simplistic bull which creationists like Kleinman try to peddle.

Still waiting for relevance of Lake Mead. Have you heard of photosynthesis? Maybe you have heard of chemical reactions that produce energy.
Maybe you have heard of hydrothermal vent worms.
The whole carrying capacity argument is irrelevant to your previous arguments. You are just throwing up strawman arguments and doing a gish gallop instead of addressing serious criticism from serious scientists about your posts. I am merely pointing out your dishonesty, lies and fraud.
You are correct. I am out of my field and comfort zone. My posts and questions are meant to further expose your ignorance and dishonesty. I will now leave it for the scientists to further discredit you.

I wasn't talking to you, fraud. I was talking to the gallery.And thank you, vimesey.

vimsey:

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Hi Paul - I found this useful article which states that in 2008, Daniel Styler showed that the earth is bathed in around one trillion times the amount of entropy flux required to support the evolution of complex life.

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quote:

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Evolution and the Second Law of Thermodynamics: Effectively Communicating to Non-technicians | Evolution: Education and Outreach | Full Text

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vimsey:

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So yes, what you say is correct.
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It's also a very useful run-through of how the second law of thermodynamics does indeed support the evolution of life - as well as pointing out the simplistic bull which creationists like Kleinman try to peddle.

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That paper is a waste of time. It doesn't explain how the second law applies to descent with modification. I know this math is tough for you but a Markov Process is an entropy generating process. The diversification of a population is due to this Markov Process. Biologists have no idea what the second law of thermodynamics is or does.

Theodoric:

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Still waiting for relevance of Lake Mead. Have you heard of photosynthesis? Maybe you have heard of chemical reactions that produce energy.
Maybe you have heard of hydrothermal vent worms.
The whole carrying capacity argument is irrelevant to your previous arguments. You are just throwing up strawman arguments and doing a gish gallop instead of addressing serious criticism from serious scientists about your posts. I am merely pointing out your dishonesty, lies and fraud.
You are correct. I am out of my field and comfort zone. My posts and questions are meant to further expose your ignorance and dishonesty. I will now leave it for the scientists to further discredit you.

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You really are out of your field. That's why you can't describe the physics and mathematics of biological evolution or give a mathematical explanation for the Kishony and Lenski experiments. Every time you post, you reveal how little you understand of biological evolution. You don't understand carrying capacity and why limiting population size causes biological competition and you don't understand descent with modification. You just like to babble on about a field you know nothing about. But feel free to babble on, it shows how stupid you are. The laws of thermodynamics don't apply to open systems, you are an idiot and so is your so-called expert.

AZPaul3:

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I wasn't talking to you, fraud. I was talking to the gallery.
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And thank you, vimesey.

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AZPaul3 will now give a mathematical explanation of the Kishony and Lenski experiments based on vimesey's link. Now that's a dream. That paper explains nothing about biological evolution. And I hope you like it dry, real dry.

I liked Jeremy England's work.Under a thermodynamic excess more complex chemical reactions occur spontaneously. Statistically, says England, the emergence of life on this planet was inevitable.Jeremy England - Wikipedia