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Author Topic:   Rebuttal To Creationists - "Since We Can't Directly Observe Evolution..."
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 2128 of 2926 (902564)
11-25-2022 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 2121 by ringo
11-25-2022 10:43 AM


Re: Kleinman Admits He's A Fraud.
Kleinman:
He hasn't acknowledged it yet.
ringo:
So we're clear on that.

He also doesn't know why competition slows adaptation in his own experiment and he hasn't given a correct mathematical explanation of his own experiment. So we're clear on that.
Kleinman:
That's why more people are reading these papers all the time.
ringo:
And more people are reading The Lord of the Rings all the time. Doesn't make it more true.

Does the Lord of the Rings explain the evolution of drug resistance and why cancer treatments fail?
Kleinman:
They must read it because they don't believe it.
ringo:
There doesn't seem to be anybody who believes it after they read it.

You can believe what you want and you can be wrong about whatever you want.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2121 by ringo, posted 11-25-2022 10:43 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2134 by ringo, posted 11-25-2022 12:26 PM Kleinman has replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 2129 of 2926 (902565)
11-25-2022 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 2122 by ringo
11-25-2022 10:44 AM


Re: Resorting to spamming us
Kleinman:
Whoever taught you thermodynamics blew it.
ringo:
I don't think I've said anything to you about thermodynamics, so why would you say that?

However, I am happy to give you a kindergarten-level lesson in thermodynamics. Go ahead and ask questions.

So, you never studied thermodynamics? That must make you an expert. Why don't you explain to us how you solve a three-dimensional partial differential heat transfer equation that is transient and has conduction, convection, and radiation heat transfer? Make it simple, you can assume the properties are uniform.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2122 by ringo, posted 11-25-2022 10:44 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2135 by ringo, posted 11-25-2022 12:32 PM Kleinman has replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 2130 of 2926 (902566)
11-25-2022 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 2123 by ringo
11-25-2022 10:52 AM


Re: Kleinman does not know asexual vs sexual
Kleinman:
And your explanation of "B and C evolved from A" and "C evolved from B" shows your degree of mathematical understanding of biological evolution.
ringo:
Well, I'm glad you noticed that I expressed it mathematically. But do you understand it?

You are a math wizard. You have shown you know the ABCs of biological evolution.
Kleinman:
Now I know why "D and U evolved from M and B". So, please go on.
ringo:
You're getting ahead of yourself. Stick with A, B and C for now:
B represents reptiles
C represents birds
A represents a common ancestor

So B evolved from A
and C evolved from A

But you have been saying that C evolved from B. That is a serious misunderstanding of biology. (AND a serious misunderstanding of mathemqtics.)

Do you understand yet that you are wrong about B evolving into C?

I get it now, it is EIEIO, right, old MacDonald?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2123 by ringo, posted 11-25-2022 10:52 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2136 by ringo, posted 11-25-2022 12:34 PM Kleinman has replied
 Message 2139 by Theodoric, posted 11-25-2022 12:50 PM Kleinman has replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 2131 of 2926 (902567)
11-25-2022 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 2124 by Theodoric
11-25-2022 10:54 AM


Re: 1st law of Theromdynamics
Theodoric:
You keep bringing up the 1st Law of Thermodynamics but have yet explained why you think its is relevant or an explanation of how it affects evolution.

Go for it,
Again? All right, for you.
1. It takes energy to survive and replicate
2. The carrying capacity of an environment represents the total amount of usable energy available for populations.
3. The most effective variant using that energy will have higher reproductive fitness than less effective variants and over time, the most effective variant may fix and the less effective variants will be driven to extinction.
4. This competition between different variants will reduce the number of replications that any variants can do reducing the number of replications of all variants in the population slowing the descent with modification process and adaptation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2124 by Theodoric, posted 11-25-2022 10:54 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2140 by Theodoric, posted 11-25-2022 12:53 PM Kleinman has replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 2132 of 2926 (902568)
11-25-2022 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 2125 by ringo
11-25-2022 10:54 AM


Re: Kleinman still does not know asexual vs sexual
Theodoric:
He must be a real hit with the ladies.
ringo:
He keeps waiting for them to bud.

So thermodynamics isn't the only subject you have mastered.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2125 by ringo, posted 11-25-2022 10:54 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2137 by ringo, posted 11-25-2022 12:45 PM Kleinman has replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 2141 of 2926 (902580)
11-25-2022 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 2133 by ringo
11-25-2022 12:23 PM


Re: Kleinman Admits He's A Fraud.
Kleinman:
All you have to do is post a link that shows how antimicrobial resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail.
ringo:
That has nothing to do with what I said.

Sure it does! You keep claiming that biologists have explained how antimicrobial drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail. They have not explained it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2133 by ringo, posted 11-25-2022 12:23 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2169 by ringo, posted 11-26-2022 10:39 AM Kleinman has replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 2142 of 2926 (902581)
11-25-2022 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 2134 by ringo
11-25-2022 12:26 PM


Re: Kleinman Admits He's A Fraud.
Kleinman:
... you can be wrong about whatever you want.
ringo:
I prefer to stick with the people who know what they're talking about.

So, post a link written by a biologist that explains how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2134 by ringo, posted 11-25-2022 12:26 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2170 by ringo, posted 11-26-2022 10:42 AM Kleinman has not replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 2143 of 2926 (902583)
11-25-2022 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 2135 by ringo
11-25-2022 12:32 PM


Re: Resorting to spamming us
Kleinman:
So, you never studied thermodynamics?
ringo:
I had the same professor for two classes. He told us that the first time he did thermodynamics, as an undergraduate, he didn't understand it. The second time he did it, as a grad student, he thought he understood it. But when he had to teach it, he realized he didn't understand it as well as he thought.

I only offered you a KINDERGARTEN-level thermodynamics lesson because I don't pretend to be an expert thermodynamicist - and I don't expect you to understand anything but the kindergarten level.

You had an impressive instructor.
The thermodynamics that applies to competition is pretty simple. The hardest part of doing the mathematics for the Lenski experiment is the bottleneck which introduces a discontinuity into the mathematics. That discontinuity was not that difficult to deal with if you have experience dealing with discontinuities. I published an engineering paper years ago that dealt with a discontinuity. That's way out of your ballpark.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2135 by ringo, posted 11-25-2022 12:32 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2155 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-25-2022 3:32 PM Kleinman has replied
 Message 2171 by ringo, posted 11-26-2022 10:47 AM Kleinman has not replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 2144 of 2926 (902584)
11-25-2022 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 2136 by ringo
11-25-2022 12:34 PM


Re: Kleinman does not know asexual vs sexual
Kleinman:
You have shown you know the ABCs of biological evolution.
ringo:
And you are still showing that you don't.

You have been saying that C evolved from B. That is a serious misunderstanding of biology AND a serious misunderstanding of mathemqtics.

Do you understand yet that you are wrong about B evolving into C?

Your an expert. Now show us how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatment fail. Which letter is that? Maybe you better go to the letter "E" for the Kishony experiment.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2136 by ringo, posted 11-25-2022 12:34 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2149 by Theodoric, posted 11-25-2022 2:43 PM Kleinman has replied
 Message 2172 by ringo, posted 11-26-2022 10:52 AM Kleinman has not replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 2145 of 2926 (902585)
11-25-2022 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 2137 by ringo
11-25-2022 12:45 PM


Re: Kleinman still does not know asexual vs sexual
Kleinman:
So thermodynamics isn't the only subject you have mastered.
ringo:
I know there's a difference between sexual and asexual reproduction, which you can't seem to grasp. And I know that you can't discuss DNA without understanding that asexual reproduction involves one parent while sexual reproduction involves the combination of two parents. You don't seem to grasp that either.

So, show us how you do the mathematics of recombination in a population.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2137 by ringo, posted 11-25-2022 12:45 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2173 by ringo, posted 11-26-2022 10:54 AM Kleinman has not replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 2146 of 2926 (902586)
11-25-2022 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 2138 by Theodoric
11-25-2022 12:48 PM


Re: King of the strawman
Kleinman:
So, you are claiming that combination therapy doesn't work for HIV, weeds, and insects? Your speculations about sexual reproduction and asexual reproduction are countered by the facts.
Theodoric:
Please show where I have said anything remotely similar to this. I am addressing your dishonest posts. I will leave it up to those more capable than I am to address your lack of understanding of the math and science. I will concentrate on your logical fallacies, deceitful posts and your lies.
Just because you do not understand Lenski does not mean he has to alter the findings to meet the expectations of a known crank.

So, now you claim that combination therapy worked for the treatment of HIV, weeds, and insects. Why don't you make up your mind.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2138 by Theodoric, posted 11-25-2022 12:48 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2150 by Theodoric, posted 11-25-2022 2:44 PM Kleinman has replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 2147 of 2926 (902587)
11-25-2022 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 2139 by Theodoric
11-25-2022 12:50 PM


Re: Kleinman does not know asexual vs sexual
Theodoric:
I notice you did not answer. I think we can assume you do not know or have an answer for any question you do not answer.
I can't help it if you don't understand simple thermodynamics.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2139 by Theodoric, posted 11-25-2022 12:50 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2151 by Theodoric, posted 11-25-2022 2:45 PM Kleinman has replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 2148 of 2926 (902588)
11-25-2022 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 2140 by Theodoric
11-25-2022 12:53 PM


Re: 1st law of Theromdynamics
Theodoric:
All you are doing is spouting. You need to provide evidence and show what each of these points actually affect real world situations. Asserting shows nothing.
Do you mean I can't make up imaginary populations with an imaginary selection condition as Taq does? I guess I'll have to stick to the Kishony and Lenski experiments, the treatment of HIV with 3 drug combination therapy, and treating weeds and insects with combination therapy. Why can't I imagine just like Taq?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2140 by Theodoric, posted 11-25-2022 12:53 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 2152 of 2926 (902601)
11-25-2022 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 2149 by Theodoric
11-25-2022 2:43 PM


Re: Kleinman does not know asexual vs sexual
Theodoric:
Again not answering the question
Seems you are out of your field and expertise and just repeat the same mantra. Liar and a fraud.
Seems like you are out of something too.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2149 by Theodoric, posted 11-25-2022 2:43 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2158 by Theodoric, posted 11-25-2022 4:13 PM Kleinman has replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 2153 of 2926 (902604)
11-25-2022 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 2150 by Theodoric
11-25-2022 2:44 PM


Re: King of the strawman
Theodoric:
More lies.
That's not it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2150 by Theodoric, posted 11-25-2022 2:44 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
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