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Author Topic:   Coffee House Musings on Creationist Topic Proposals
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1135 of 1429 (902451)
11-23-2022 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 1129 by AZPaul3
11-22-2022 11:47 PM


Re: UCD evidence
APauling writes:
No. Go find it yourself.
In other words, you have nothing to support your claim that Covid vaccines work because of UCD Message 1127.
UCD is now the default position in evolution. You want to kill it, you do the work. The evidence for common descent is available
More evasion. My question doesn't concern evidence for UCD. I want to know how the theory of UCD has made a practical contribution to medical or biological science.
Do try and keep on-topic.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1129 by AZPaul3, posted 11-22-2022 11:47 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1136 by xongsmith, posted 11-23-2022 5:29 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 1138 by AZPaul3, posted 11-23-2022 6:19 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1137 of 1429 (902458)
11-23-2022 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 1133 by FLRW
11-23-2022 12:59 PM


What does any of that have to do with the discussion?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1133 by FLRW, posted 11-23-2022 12:59 PM FLRW has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1139 of 1429 (902460)
11-23-2022 6:22 PM
Reply to: Message 1129 by AZPaul3
11-22-2022 11:47 PM


Re: UCD evidence
APauling writes:
No. Go find it yourself.
That's not how it works. You made the claim, so the onus is on YOU to provide evidence that supports it.
If you can't provide a scientific paper that supports your claim that Covid vaccines work because of UCD Message 1127, why should I believe you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1129 by AZPaul3, posted 11-22-2022 11:47 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1140 by AZPaul3, posted 11-23-2022 6:44 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 1141 by AZPaul3, posted 11-23-2022 7:29 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 1142 by Theodoric, posted 11-24-2022 1:03 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 1146 by ringo, posted 11-24-2022 11:33 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1143 of 1429 (902479)
11-24-2022 6:28 AM
Reply to: Message 1140 by AZPaul3
11-23-2022 6:44 PM


Re: UCD Is Not The Issue.
Why are you talking about evidence for UCD? I think you must be in the wrong thread.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1140 by AZPaul3, posted 11-23-2022 6:44 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1147 of 1429 (902538)
11-25-2022 2:23 AM
Reply to: Message 1146 by ringo
11-24-2022 11:33 AM


Re: UCD evidence
ringo writes:
UCD is the default position in all science. It is ridiculous to demand that anybody "back it up".
I'm not demanding that anyone "back up" UCD.
I asked the poster to provide a scientific paper that says Covid vaccines work bcoz of UCD.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1146 by ringo, posted 11-24-2022 11:33 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1150 by Theodoric, posted 11-25-2022 10:59 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 1152 by ringo, posted 11-25-2022 11:22 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1148 of 1429 (902539)
11-25-2022 2:37 AM
Reply to: Message 1144 by Tangle
11-24-2022 7:36 AM


Re: UCD evidence
Tangle writes:
So when medical science uses animal models to test drugs they choose animals that are the likeliest to react to them the same way as humans - which assumes genetic similarity. Without any knowledge of evolution (the UCD is a conclusion drawn from the ToE) it would be logical to choose chimps as models but why would you also choose pigs? Or a fruit fly? The answer is common relatedness.
No, the answer is common DNA. Finding model animals with similar DNA to humans doesn't require the theory of UCD.
A scientist who rejects UCD could find model animals with similar DNA to humans just as competently as a scientist who accepts UCD.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1144 by Tangle, posted 11-24-2022 7:36 AM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1151 by Theodoric, posted 11-25-2022 11:00 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 1153 by ringo, posted 11-25-2022 11:24 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1149 of 1429 (902541)
11-25-2022 3:46 AM
Reply to: Message 1144 by Tangle
11-24-2022 7:36 AM


Re: UCD evidence
Tangle writes:
Animal Models in Pharmacology: A Brief History Awarding the Nobel Prizes for Physiology or Medicine - FullText - Pharmacology 2021, Vol. 106, No. 7-8 - Karger Publishers
So without the relatedness of all species, the animal models that all drug researchers use would not work
The article says "Animal models are based on the principle of comparative medicine that animals share physiological, pathological, behavioral, or many more other characteristics with humans".
It doesn't say anything about animal models being based on UCD.
You've got it arse-about-face:
The similarities that exist between humans and model animals don't need the theory of UCD, but the theory of UCD needs the similarities that exist between humans and model animals.
the relatedness of all species is due to common descent.
Medicine doesn't care if "the relatedness of all species is due to common descent" or not. If the fossil record didn't exist and no one had ever thought of UCD, it wouldn't make any difference to medical science.
Modern medicine depends on UCD simply being a fact.
Simply bullshit. Your explanation for why certain animals share physiological, pathological, behavioral, or many more other characteristics with humans is irrelevant and useless to medicine.
Medicine works due to the utilization of facts, and owes nothing to useless Darwinist folklore like the theory of UCD.
But even if it didn't, even if it had no clue that all life descended from a common ancestor, it would still be fact.
UCD no doubt serves as a comforting bedtime story for atheists, but medicine has no use for it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1144 by Tangle, posted 11-24-2022 7:36 AM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1154 by xongsmith, posted 11-25-2022 11:52 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 1155 by AZPaul3, posted 11-25-2022 2:07 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1156 of 1429 (902637)
11-25-2022 8:31 PM
Reply to: Message 1155 by AZPaul3
11-25-2022 2:07 PM


Re: UCD evidence
APauling666 writes:
And you know this how?
I'm yet to see any evidence to the contrary.
Can you cite any papers attesting to this indifference by medicine to the descent of life?
​That's like asking me to cite papers attesting to the indifference by medicine to the Tooth Fairy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1155 by AZPaul3, posted 11-25-2022 2:07 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1157 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-25-2022 9:19 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 1158 by dwise1, posted 11-26-2022 12:39 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 1159 by AZPaul3, posted 11-26-2022 3:25 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1160 of 1429 (902650)
11-26-2022 6:14 AM
Reply to: Message 1159 by AZPaul3
11-26-2022 3:25 AM


Re: UCD evidence
[APauling666]In other words you have nothing. [/qs] On the contrary, I have an argument that has yet to be countered by any conflicting evidence.
And speaking of having "nothing", I'm still waiting for you to provide a scientific opinion that supports your claim that Covid vaccines work due to UCD. I suspect my wait will be a long one ...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1159 by AZPaul3, posted 11-26-2022 3:25 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1161 of 1429 (902651)
11-26-2022 6:16 AM
Reply to: Message 1159 by AZPaul3
11-26-2022 3:25 AM


Re: UCD evidence
APauling writes:
In other words you have nothing.
On the contrary, I have an argument that has yet to be countered by any conflicting evidence.
​
And speaking of having "nothing", I'm still waiting for you to provide a scientific opinion that supports your claim that Covid vaccines work due to UCD. I suspect my wait will be a long one ...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1159 by AZPaul3, posted 11-26-2022 3:25 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1162 by AZPaul3, posted 11-26-2022 9:37 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 1168 by xongsmith, posted 11-27-2022 10:20 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1164 of 1429 (902701)
11-26-2022 11:31 PM
Reply to: Message 1127 by AZPaul3
11-22-2022 6:20 PM


Re: UCD evidence
APauling writes:
The fact you can't accept common descent is an intellectual failure.
On the contrary, I accept that the theory of UCD is the best scientific explanation for the evidence ... for what it's worth.
I also accept that science cannot explain the miracle of God's creation, so the "best scientific explanation for the evidence" will always be far from the truth and therefore worthless.
The fact you can't accept divine creation is a reality failure.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1127 by AZPaul3, posted 11-22-2022 6:20 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1165 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-26-2022 11:36 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 1166 by nwr, posted 11-26-2022 11:53 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 1169 by ringo, posted 11-27-2022 2:18 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 1170 by AZPaul3, posted 11-27-2022 3:38 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1167 of 1429 (902708)
11-27-2022 1:51 AM
Reply to: Message 1166 by nwr
11-26-2022 11:53 PM


Re: UCD evidence
I've been saying that for years. You haven't been paying attention.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1166 by nwr, posted 11-26-2022 11:53 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1171 of 1429 (902851)
11-28-2022 2:19 AM
Reply to: Message 1168 by xongsmith
11-27-2022 10:20 AM


Re: UCD evidence
wrongsmith writes:
The vaccines use the RNA-DNA mechanism that was originated by the Universal Common Descent organism.
Oh, I get what you mean ... if scientists don't accept that RNA-DNA is the result of Universal Common Descent, RNA-DNA will change or perhaps cease to exist and the vaccines won't work.
So in order for the vaccine's "RNA-DNA mechanism" to work, scientists must first accept UCD.
That's fascinating.
What if the person receiving the vaccine doesn't accept UCD? Will the vaccine still work?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1168 by xongsmith, posted 11-27-2022 10:20 AM xongsmith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1173 by AZPaul3, posted 11-28-2022 7:16 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 1175 by Theodoric, posted 11-28-2022 8:08 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 1176 by xongsmith, posted 11-28-2022 8:31 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 1184 by Taq, posted 11-29-2022 3:09 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 1197 by ringo, posted 12-05-2022 12:24 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1172 of 1429 (902852)
11-28-2022 2:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1170 by AZPaul3
11-27-2022 3:38 PM


Re: UCD: Gift From God
APauling writes:
For pharmaceuticals the worth was $1.4 trillion in 2021.
Oh yeah ... if no one believed in UCD, no drugs or vaccines could be developed. Your idiotic Darwinist bs is embarrassing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1170 by AZPaul3, posted 11-27-2022 3:38 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1174 by AZPaul3, posted 11-28-2022 7:19 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 1179 by nwr, posted 11-28-2022 4:49 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1180 of 1429 (902942)
11-29-2022 7:23 AM
Reply to: Message 1176 by xongsmith
11-28-2022 8:31 AM


Re: UCD evidence
Dredge writes:
Oh, I get what you mean ... if scientists don't accept that RNA-DNA is the result of Universal Common Descent, RNA-DNA will change or perhaps cease to exist and the vaccines won't work.
wrongsmith writes:
if scientists don't accept it, it cannot change whether it exists, you stupid.
and they cannot retroactively change the efficacy of a vaccine either, you dumbo.
Wait ... you're saying that, whether scientists accept the theory of UCD or not, the vaccine's "RNA-DNA mechanism" Message 1168
will remain the same and will still work?
If so, that means that - whether scientists accepted the theory of UCD or not - they would still have been able to develop the vaccine in the first place, doesn't it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1176 by xongsmith, posted 11-28-2022 8:31 AM xongsmith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1181 by AZPaul3, posted 11-29-2022 8:58 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 1182 by Theodoric, posted 11-29-2022 9:05 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 1183 by xongsmith, posted 11-29-2022 1:23 PM Dredge has replied

  
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