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Author Topic:   Rebuttal To Creationists - "Since We Can't Directly Observe Evolution..."
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1922 of 2926 (902164)
11-18-2022 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1921 by Kleinman
11-18-2022 12:11 PM


Re: Kleinman does not know asexual vs sexual
Kleinman writes:
They can explain it to everybody's satisfaction but yours.
Tell that to the people dying of drug-resistant infections and failed cancer treatments.
People die from car accidents too. That doesn't mean Ford and Suzuki don't know what they're doing.
Kleinman writes:
At least I can explain how bacteria evolve drug resistance and why cancer treatments fail.
To nobody's satisfaction but your own.
Kleinman writes:
Your friends have failed at their job.
In nobody's opinion but yours.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1921 by Kleinman, posted 11-18-2022 12:11 PM Kleinman has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1966 of 2926 (902285)
11-21-2022 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 1962 by Kleinman
11-21-2022 8:00 AM


Re: Kleinman does not know asexual vs sexual
Kleinman writes:
No one can claim that you are exaggerating the Kishony and Lenski experiment. You don't know anything about them or how they work.
Show us where Kishony and Lenski (and Desai - don't forget poor Desai) agree with your conclusions about their experiments.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1962 by Kleinman, posted 11-21-2022 8:00 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1969 by Kleinman, posted 11-21-2022 11:44 AM ringo has replied
 Message 1978 by Theodoric, posted 11-21-2022 1:21 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1970 of 2926 (902291)
11-21-2022 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 1969 by Kleinman
11-21-2022 11:44 AM


Re: Kleinman does not know asexual vs sexual
Kleinman writes:
I guess you haven't heard, Kishony and Lenski have never published an explanation of their experiment, and Desai is still trying to figure out how drug resistance evolves.
That isn't what I asked for. I asked if they agree with YOUR conclusions.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1969 by Kleinman, posted 11-21-2022 11:44 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1971 by Kleinman, posted 11-21-2022 11:54 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 1972 of 2926 (902293)
11-21-2022 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1971 by Kleinman
11-21-2022 11:54 AM


Re: Kleinman does not know asexual vs sexual
Kleinman writes:
Go ask them.
When they join EvC, I will ask them. Right now, I'm asking you - and either you don't know the answer or you don't want to be honest about it. You're just another crank, citing experiments and claiming you understand them better than the experimenters.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1971 by Kleinman, posted 11-21-2022 11:54 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1974 by Kleinman, posted 11-21-2022 12:29 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2015 of 2926 (902356)
11-22-2022 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 1974 by Kleinman
11-21-2022 12:29 PM


Re: Kleinman does not know asexual vs sexual
Kleinman writes:
It is easy to understand this better than them, they have no explanation.
Itt's easy to THINK you understand better than them when you have an ego the size of Montana.
Kleinman writes:
In fact, Lenski didn't understand why competition slows adaptation until I explained it to him.
Show us where he acknowledges that.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1974 by Kleinman, posted 11-21-2022 12:29 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2026 by Kleinman, posted 11-23-2022 9:26 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2016 of 2926 (902358)
11-22-2022 10:46 AM
Reply to: Message 1991 by Dredge
11-21-2022 5:00 PM


Re: Kleinman does not know asexual vs sexual
Dredge writes:
Tany is just being a good Darwinist ...
Get out of the nineteenth century.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1991 by Dredge, posted 11-21-2022 5:00 PM Dredge has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 2017 of 2926 (902359)
11-22-2022 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 1999 by Kleinman
11-21-2022 5:26 PM


Re: Kleinman Admits He's A Fraud.
Kleinman writes:
I have conversed several times with Lenski about his work and I have explained to him (and you) why competition slows descent with modification.
But did he acknowledge what you said? Or did he call security?

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1999 by Kleinman, posted 11-21-2022 5:26 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2027 by Kleinman, posted 11-23-2022 9:27 AM ringo has replied
 Message 2028 by Kleinman, posted 11-23-2022 9:28 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 2100 of 2926 (902492)
11-24-2022 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 2026 by Kleinman
11-23-2022 9:26 AM


Re: Kleinman does not know asexual vs sexual
Kleinman writes:
I have the physics and the math, that's all you need to understand the Kishony and Lenski experiments and descent with modification with and without competition.
No. You need to understand the biology first.
Kleinman writes:
Here's where he acknowleged that he doesn't know why competition slows evolution in the paper he edited.
I don't see where he mentions you in that.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2026 by Kleinman, posted 11-23-2022 9:26 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2105 by Kleinman, posted 11-24-2022 11:23 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2101 of 2926 (902493)
11-24-2022 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 2027 by Kleinman
11-23-2022 9:27 AM


Re: Kleinman Admits He's A Fraud.
Kleinman writes:
Tany still has to learn the laws of thermodynamics and how to do math. He won't do that chasing bugs.
YOU have to learn that Darwin isn't the be-all and end-all of evolution.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2027 by Kleinman, posted 11-23-2022 9:27 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2106 by Kleinman, posted 11-24-2022 11:26 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(3)
Message 2102 of 2926 (902494)
11-24-2022 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 2028 by Kleinman
11-23-2022 9:28 AM


Re: Kleinman Admits He's A Fraud.
Kleinman writes:
He can call whomever he wants.
Are you physicall incapable of answering a question honestly? You claimed that you "conversed several times with Lenski about his work" and i asked about his reaction. Did he acknowledge verbally that you were right? (It seems pretty clear that he has not acknowledged you in writing.) Or did he say, "Security! Security! There's an escapee from the asylum loose in the building!"?
Kleinman writes:
If he doesn't want to understand his own experiment, that's his prerogative.
So you admit that he still doesn't understand (your drivel about) his own experiment, even after you explained it to him. So, clearly, he does not acknowledge your claims, which is what I've been asking.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2028 by Kleinman, posted 11-23-2022 9:28 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2107 by Kleinman, posted 11-24-2022 11:33 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2103 of 2926 (902495)
11-24-2022 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 2061 by Kleinman
11-23-2022 12:12 PM


Re: Resorting to spamming us
Kleinman writes:
dumdum
So you are capable of learning. Congratulations.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2061 by Kleinman, posted 11-23-2022 12:12 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2108 by Kleinman, posted 11-24-2022 11:35 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2109 of 2926 (902503)
11-24-2022 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 2105 by Kleinman
11-24-2022 11:23 AM


Re: Kleinman does not know asexual vs sexual
Kleinman writes:
... Oh, that's right, you need to know that reptiles evolve into birds and fish evolve into mammals...
I have told you at least once that reptiles and birds evolved (past tense) from a common ancestor and that fish and mammals evolved (past tense) from a common ancestor. What do you not understand about that? i will be glad to answer your kindergarten-level questions about evolution.
Kleinman writes:
Why should he mention me that he doesn't know why competition slows adaptation?
We were talking about him acknowledging you. How could he acknowledge you without mentioning you? (That's mathematics, boy! You can't argue with mathematics!)

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2105 by Kleinman, posted 11-24-2022 11:23 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2113 by Kleinman, posted 11-24-2022 12:46 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2110 of 2926 (902504)
11-24-2022 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 2106 by Kleinman
11-24-2022 11:26 AM


Re: Kleinman Admits He's A Fraud.
Kleinman writes:
ringo writes:
YOU have to learn that Darwin isn't the be-all and end-all of evolution.
He certainly got biological competition and descent with modification right.
It's true that your ideas were already wrong in Darwin's lifetime. But science didn't end in 1882. Instead of flaunting your ignorance, you should move into the twentieth century. And then when you've learned the biology of the twentieth century, we have another twenty-two years worth as icing on the cake.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2106 by Kleinman, posted 11-24-2022 11:26 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2114 by Kleinman, posted 11-24-2022 12:49 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 2111 of 2926 (902505)
11-24-2022 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 2107 by Kleinman
11-24-2022 11:33 AM


Re: Kleinman Admits He's A Fraud.
Kleinman writes:
He hasn't acknowledged one way or the other.
So, after much pulling of teeth, we're clear on that.
Kleinman writes:
There are lots of people that have read this paper.
There are lots of people who have read The Lord of the Rings too. Not many believed it was true.
Kleinman writes:
He doesn't have to acknowledge it to make it true.
And he doesn't have to deny it to make it false.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2107 by Kleinman, posted 11-24-2022 11:33 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2115 by Kleinman, posted 11-24-2022 12:51 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 2112 of 2926 (902506)
11-24-2022 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 2108 by Kleinman
11-24-2022 11:35 AM


Re: Resorting to spamming us
Kleinman writes:
ringo writes:
So you are capable of learning. Congratulations.
You are absolutely right, dumb dumb.
And you'll probably learn more by respecting your teachers.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2108 by Kleinman, posted 11-24-2022 11:35 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2116 by Kleinman, posted 11-24-2022 12:52 PM ringo has replied

  
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