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Author | Topic: Coffee House Musings on Creationist Topic Proposals | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8561 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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If you can't provide a scientific paper that supports your claim that Covid vaccines work because of UCD Message 1127, why should I believe you? I don't give a rat's ass whether you believe or not. UCD is established fact and you cannot challenge it.Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2
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Troll
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Dredge Member (Idle past 101 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Why are you talking about evidence for UCD? I think you must be in the wrong thread.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9512 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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Dredge writes: Which treatment of which disease could not have been developed without accepting "the fact of UCD", and why? You've got this all arse about face. I can throw a ball at a target without needing to "accept" Newton's laws. Never-the-less the laws still apply. So when medical science uses animal models to test drugs they choose animals that are the likeliest to react to them the same way as humans - which assumes genetic similarity. Without any knowledge of evolution (the UCD is a conclusion drawn from the ToE) it would be logical to choose chimps as models but why would you also choose pigs? Or a fruit fly? The answer is common relatedness.
quote:
Animal Models in Pharmacology: A Brief History Awarding the Nobel Prizes for Physiology or Medicine - FullText - Pharmacology 2021, Vol. 106, No. 7-8 - Karger Publishers So without the relatedness of all species, the animal models that all drug researchers use would not work and the relatedness of all species is due to common descent. Modern medicine depends on UCD simply being a fact. But even if it didn't, even if it had no clue that all life descended from a common ancestor, it would still be fact.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Dredge writes:
Which treatment of which disease has been developed by creationists denying "the fact of UCD", and why? Which treatment of which disease could not have been developed without accepting "the fact of UCD", and why?Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Dredge writes:
No. YOU made the claim that UCD is not necessary for [blah blah blah]. YOU are the one who has to back up that claim. You made the claim, so the onus is on YOU to provide evidence that supports it. UCD is the default position in all science. It is ridiculous to demand that anybody "back it up".Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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Dredge Member (Idle past 101 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
ringo writes:
I'm not demanding that anyone "back up" UCD. UCD is the default position in all science. It is ridiculous to demand that anybody "back it up". I asked the poster to provide a scientific paper that says Covid vaccines work bcoz of UCD.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 101 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Tangle writes:
No, the answer is common DNA. Finding model animals with similar DNA to humans doesn't require the theory of UCD. So when medical science uses animal models to test drugs they choose animals that are the likeliest to react to them the same way as humans - which assumes genetic similarity. Without any knowledge of evolution (the UCD is a conclusion drawn from the ToE) it would be logical to choose chimps as models but why would you also choose pigs? Or a fruit fly? The answer is common relatedness. A scientist who rejects UCD could find model animals with similar DNA to humans just as competently as a scientist who accepts UCD.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 101 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Tangle writes:
The article says "Animal models are based on the principle of comparative medicine that animals share physiological, pathological, behavioral, or many more other characteristics with humans".
Animal Models in Pharmacology: A Brief History Awarding the Nobel Prizes for Physiology or Medicine - FullText - Pharmacology 2021, Vol. 106, No. 7-8 - Karger Publishers So without the relatedness of all species, the animal models that all drug researchers use would not work
It doesn't say anything about animal models being based on UCD. You've got it arse-about-face:The similarities that exist between humans and model animals don't need the theory of UCD, but the theory of UCD needs the similarities that exist between humans and model animals. the relatedness of all species is due to common descent.
Medicine doesn't care if "the relatedness of all species is due to common descent" or not. If the fossil record didn't exist and no one had ever thought of UCD, it wouldn't make any difference to medical science.
Modern medicine depends on UCD simply being a fact.
Simply bullshit. Your explanation for why certain animals share physiological, pathological, behavioral, or many more other characteristics with humans is irrelevant and useless to medicine. Medicine works due to the utilization of facts, and owes nothing to useless Darwinist folklore like the theory of UCD.
But even if it didn't, even if it had no clue that all life descended from a common ancestor, it would still be fact.
UCD no doubt serves as a comforting bedtime story for atheists, but medicine has no use for it.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2
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Why would a scientific paper say such a thing? Why do you think it should? How would this support any position you have?
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2
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So Goddidit. Right?
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Dredge writes:
Of course you are. You are repeatedly asking for evidence that UCD is necessary. I'm not demanding that anyone "back up" UCD.Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Dredge writes:
So if your DNA and your cousin's DNA are similar, that isn't because you have the same grandfather? Finding model animals with similar DNA to humans doesn't require the theory of UCD. ABE
Dredge writes:
But they DON't. Science-deniers DON'T make scientific discoveries. A scientist who rejects UCD could find model animals with similar DNA to humans just as competently as a scientist who accepts UCD.Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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xongsmith Member Posts: 2587 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 6.4
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more Dredgings:
Simply bullshit. Your explanation for why certain animals share physiological, pathological, behavioral, or many more other characteristics with humans is irrelevant and useless to medicine. I'm glad you see that it explains the Why. But there are thousands upon thousands of species, and the DNA similarity is a great way to Save Time Looking -likely several decades of wasted time. Like driving on mapped paved roads versus just driving off into the woods and over any old river to get to your grandmother's house. "I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside." Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned! Enjoy every sandwich! - xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8561 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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Medicine doesn't care if "the relatedness of all species is due to common descent" or not. If the fossil record didn't exist and no one had ever thought of UCD, it wouldn't make any difference to medical science. And you know this how? Can you cite any papers attesting to this indifference by medicine to the descent of life? Do you have any reference or logic that even hints at this? No, no, it's OK. We know you don't. Another one of your lies, Choir Boy.Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
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