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Author Topic:   Rebuttal To Creationists - "Since We Can't Directly Observe Evolution..."
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 1927 of 2926 (902169)
11-18-2022 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 1925 by Kleinman
11-18-2022 12:51 PM


Re: Illustration of Adaptation in Asexual and Sexual Populations






And yet you still cannot understand the simple reality that sexual reproduction is different than asexual reproduction?






And you still cannot understand that a math model for asexual reproduction will not work to model sexual reproduction?



You silly creationists say the stupidest things!






This message is a reply to:
 Message 1925 by Kleinman, posted 11-18-2022 12:51 PM Kleinman has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(1)
Message 2068 of 2926 (902443)
11-23-2022 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 2064 by Tanypteryx
11-23-2022 12:27 PM


Re: Resorting to spamming us
His behavior is pretty bizarre, especially for an MD or a scientist.
Engineer, not scientist. Or at least that's what he claimed.
As we've already noted, engineers tend to have much disdain for science and scientists, especially the engineers who are creationists.
A scientist wants to figure out how things work. An engineer just wants results. Present a scientist with a problem and he'll solve it by analyzing the problem and constructing a model of it (ie, figure out how the system works and why that would lead to the problem. An engineer doesn't want to understand why the problem exists but instead only wants a solution or a workaround.
One of the worst insults an engineer can hurl at another engineer is by accusing them of him of turning a problem into a "science project". I have personally heard that having worked on engineering teams my entire career.
Earning a PhD in the sciences, including the biological sciences, involves a lot of lab work supporting the professor's own research -- in his lectures on genetics, Dr. Eric Lander's coverage of the development of gene analysis techniques included how graduate students had to at first spend months of long hours sorting out the raw data in order to construct even a small portion of a genome (which with modern technology can now be done within a day) which led to his observation that all that a PhD proves is that you can survive doing an enormous amount of work. But in that process, they learned how to conduct research.
In contrast, for a medical student or an engineer to get his doctorate, about all he needs to prove is that he can do a lot of memorization work. Very little opportunity for learning research is offered him.
Normally, preparation for qualifying for medical school involves a lot of classes in biology, biochemistry, etc (which are called "pre-med"). One would assume that an MD would have taken biology and hence would have learned something about evolution (though Dr. Eugenie Scott did observe that many undergrad biology programs in the US leave that out). I guess that med schools in the Caribbean don't require pre-med.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2064 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-23-2022 12:27 PM Tanypteryx has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2069 by Kleinman, posted 11-23-2022 2:22 PM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(2)
Message 2072 of 2926 (902447)
11-23-2022 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 2069 by Kleinman
11-23-2022 2:22 PM


Re: Resorting to spamming us
{ typical silly off-topic blatherings }
{ same tired old script } , you must be a biologist.
I'm something of a polymath, interested in many subjects including biology. I'm a retired software engineer. We are always working with data representation and with modeling systems, which is why I can see that you're rubbish with math models. You clearly do not know what you are doing.
You creationists are nothing without your stupid scripts. Are you really so incapable of any independent thought?
Do please find yourself a new script. Your current one has become very worn out and I do not need to set my watch so often.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2069 by Kleinman, posted 11-23-2022 2:22 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2073 by Kleinman, posted 11-23-2022 3:54 PM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 2074 of 2926 (902452)
11-23-2022 4:26 PM
Reply to: Message 2073 by Kleinman
11-23-2022 3:54 PM


Re: Resorting to spamming us
I already told you, you stupid idiot. Get a new script to read from! Your empty bluster does not cover up your own ignorance and incompetence and it really had become very tiresome.
What's wrong with you stupid creationists? Why does your god demand such gross dishonesty and trolling in his servants? Is he nothing more than the God of Trolls?
Apply the Matthew 7:20 Test on yourself and your pitiful god.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2073 by Kleinman, posted 11-23-2022 3:54 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2075 by Kleinman, posted 11-23-2022 4:42 PM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 2076 of 2926 (902454)
11-23-2022 5:02 PM
Reply to: Message 2075 by Kleinman
11-23-2022 4:42 PM


Re: Resorting to spamming us



You are a creationist. Creationists lie. They lie because they have no evidence for their attempts to disprove reality. Without evidence, they have no recourse but to lie.



The creationists that show up on these forums get their lies from professional creationists who deliberately craft those lies. Those creationists do not know anything and do not understand their own claims, which is evidenced by their avoiding discussing their own claims with bluster, hostility, insults, and "challenging requests" whose only purpose are to deflect and drive any opposition away.
That is all that you have been doing, which makes you nothing more than a typical stupid creationist who doesn't even understand his own claims. You are no better than "Dr" Kent Hovind, the Nadir of creationism (though there are a few creationists who are challenging him for the dubious distinction).



You should seek out some creationist enclave somewhere where you can fool them into thinking that your bullshit is chocolate mousse. Because everybody here can see right through your bullshit.
And take your stupid God of Lies with you. Share him with your fellow Servants of Satan (The God of Lies).




This message is a reply to:
 Message 2075 by Kleinman, posted 11-23-2022 4:42 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2077 by Kleinman, posted 11-23-2022 5:17 PM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 2078 of 2926 (902462)
11-23-2022 7:03 PM
Reply to: Message 2077 by Kleinman
11-23-2022 5:17 PM


Re: Resorting to spamming us



You are so utterly pathetic!
Or are you jealous? Because you don't know anything about evolution? Or biology? Or how math models work, let alone how to construct one? You don't even know the difference between sexual and asexual reproduction! A self-righteous preening doctor who is ignorant of the facts of life!
What a joke!




This message is a reply to:
 Message 2077 by Kleinman, posted 11-23-2022 5:17 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2079 by Kleinman, posted 11-23-2022 7:39 PM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 2082 of 2926 (902468)
11-23-2022 8:17 PM
Reply to: Message 2079 by Kleinman
11-23-2022 7:39 PM


Re: Resorting to spamming us



You are captive to your stupid script! Typical stupid creationist!
You cannot think! You cannot say anything in your own words! All you know is your stupid script!
Over and over again for the past four decades almost every single creationist I have encountered know nothing except for what claims from some creationist sources. They had memorized those claims verbatim and could recite them perfectly, one after another in rapid succession.
But they didn't understand a single word of those claims, not even what the claim was actually saying (eg, what "objection" they were claiming to raise) and most certainly nothing about the "science" that claim was based on (eg, the misrepresentation or misunderstanding of the actual science).
That verbatim reciting of claims became their scripts. Indeed, many of them would be taught as actual scripts for "conversation" using leading questions (or challenges) to which their victim would respond in a particular way. That was what most of the proselytizing training materials have consisted of as far back as the Jesus Freak Movement (c. 1970) and undoubtedly long before that. And that is exactly what you have been using all along: stupid creationist scripts.
The worst thing you could do to a creationist (or a fundamentalist proselytizer) is to go off-script, forcing them to actually think of how to respond. That is why they, like you, have always been unable to discuss their own claims and, like you, their only recourse was to resort to deflection, diversion, hostility, abuse, or running away.
And you continue to stick to your stupid script. Can't even think on your own, can you? Truly pathetic!
Tell me, did creationism turn you into a pathetic dishonest fool? Or were you already afflicted and hence were drawn to creationism?




This message is a reply to:
 Message 2079 by Kleinman, posted 11-23-2022 7:39 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2083 by Kleinman, posted 11-23-2022 8:32 PM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 2084 of 2926 (902470)
11-23-2022 8:52 PM
Reply to: Message 2083 by Kleinman
11-23-2022 8:32 PM


Re: Resorting to spamming us
Your record keeps skipping.
Silly creationist!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2083 by Kleinman, posted 11-23-2022 8:32 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2085 by Kleinman, posted 11-23-2022 8:59 PM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(1)
Message 2087 of 2926 (902473)
11-23-2022 9:35 PM
Reply to: Message 2085 by Kleinman
11-23-2022 8:59 PM


Re: Resorting to spamming us
You stupid creationist!
Your brain is broken; it keeps skipping. It's unable to engage in any kind of actual thought.
Counter-challenges:
Can you explain in detail the acquisition-execution cycle of a CPU?
Can you explain in detail how MS-DOS would load an executable file and start it?
Can you explain how a microprocessor accesses memory, including the waveforms?
Can you explain the build process in C for multiple source files?
Can you explain namespaces in C/C++?
Can you explain how polymorphism works in C++?
Can you explain how Java evaluates an expression?
Can you explain how a computer divides two integers?
Can you explain how to divide two numbers in Roman numerals?
Can you explain how a shift register works? Or even just a half-adder?
Can you explain the electronics of a flip-flop?
Can you explain how a semiconductor diode works?
Can you explain how a triode works?
Can you explain how TCP works? Or even just UDP?
Can you explain how German uses cases?
Can you explain how German uses the subjunctive? Or how French uses it?
Can you explain how to lay out an octagon without using trig?
Can you explain how radiocarbon dating works?
Of course you can't. Why should you? Has nothing to do with the fact that you are a creationist using dishonest creationist tactics.
So respond to your being a stupid creationist instead of constantly trying to change the subject like a typical stupid creationist.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2085 by Kleinman, posted 11-23-2022 8:59 PM Kleinman has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(1)
Message 2233 of 2926 (902763)
11-27-2022 1:40 PM
Reply to: Message 2193 by Kleinman
11-27-2022 9:38 AM


Re: Usable energy
Felsenstein banned me because I told him he would be held accountable for his blunders.
No, obviously he had banned you from Panda's Thumb for being a troll, just as you are doing here.
It currently shows that you have posted 1420 messages. Feeling very charitable at the moment, I would estimate that about twenty (20) of those message contained actual content, actually said something that might contribute to discussion. The remaining one thousand four hundred (1400) have been nothing more than garbage trolling.
Troll.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2193 by Kleinman, posted 11-27-2022 9:38 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2235 by ringo, posted 11-27-2022 1:46 PM dwise1 has not replied
 Message 2239 by Kleinman, posted 11-27-2022 2:05 PM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(1)
Message 2245 of 2926 (902780)
11-27-2022 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 2239 by Kleinman
11-27-2022 2:05 PM


Re: Usable energy


Yet again your only response is to spew yet more troll garbage.
Did creationism break your brain? Or was it already broken so you were drawn like a fly to creationism?


Nor are we in the least bit surprised that you are terrified of answering ringo's simple question:
ringo writes:
Do you understand yet that A → B and A → C are NOT the same as B → C ?
Creationism demands of you that you believe the B → C is the same, since that is creationist dogma, and hence you must reply that they are the same lest you blaspheme against your silly creationist troll god (not to be confused with the Christian God).
But the moment you do that, you expose the fact that you are utterly ignorant of evolution and hence your blatherings about the subject are all nothing but nonsense at best and outright lies at worse.
We do not need to be experts in coprology to be able to recognize bullshit when we smell it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2239 by Kleinman, posted 11-27-2022 2:05 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2247 by Kleinman, posted 11-27-2022 2:44 PM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(1)
Message 2253 of 2926 (902792)
11-27-2022 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 2251 by Phat
11-27-2022 3:25 PM


Re: The People v Alan Kleinman
Some honesty would be appreciated in your reply.
I'm afraid you will be disappointed. Kleinman is a creationist and therefore cannot be honest.
It's not so much that honesty is an alien concept for creationists, but rather that it is anathema to them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2251 by Phat, posted 11-27-2022 3:25 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2257 by Kleinman, posted 11-27-2022 4:37 PM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 2258 of 2926 (902799)
11-27-2022 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 2247 by Kleinman
11-27-2022 2:44 PM


Re: Usable energy
And you persist in piling ever more garbage upon garbage upon garbage.
Creationists can never ever answer any question nor respond to any remark. They are completely incapable of it, mostly because they are too stupid and ignorant but mainly because they are thoroughly dishonest.
Because they are too stupid and ignorant to even understand their own claims, they have to resort to scripts -- I saw such scripts permeating all the proselytizing training materials of the Jesus Freaks who were the founders of fundamentalist and evangelical Christianity.
And paramount in those scripts are the "got-cha" "questions" and exorbitantly monumental challenges requiring rare expertise and enormous resources and time (eg, "explain every single step in the evolution from bacteria to a blue whale" which is an actual common "challenge") which are only intended to change the subject and to try to intimidate your opponent -- that is exactly what you are doing and is that you are doing, creationist. In practice those dishonest tricks are to drive any opposition away (ie, us trying to play chess with a pigeon (ie, you creationists) who knocks over all the pieces, craps on the board, and then flies off to brag to his friends of yet another victory), though in the Jesus Freak proselytizing scripts its purpose is to completely unnerve and disorient your victim preparing him for conversion (the entire script is so cartoonish that you can read it in almost any Chick Pubs tract).
But you creationists do have an unfair advantage. Unlike you, we are honest and actually interested in the truth, so we endeavor to be honest and truthful when presenting information or answering a question and try to stay within our own area of expertise when doing so. But you creationists have no such constraints so you will make proclamations about all manner of subjects, and just make up stuff on the spur of the moment, pulling it out of your ass (which, BTW, is the "True Face" of your troll god which you kiss when worshipping him -- seriously, look it up).
You fail and you can't hide it with smilies.
I'm hiding nothing. I really am laughing at you. We are all laughing at you! Just as everybody else in all the forums you have inflicted your ludicrous nonsense on were all laughing at you.
Indeed, your "replies" are so stupid and devoid of any content that the only response possible is to laugh at them -- ie, they are little more than diarrhea. Some will laugh at them out of embarrassment, while others will laugh simply because that's all you have.
You are nothing but a stupid troll. Nobody can possibly take you seriously! Just because you can slap a bandaid on an owie or you can do arithmetic you think that you're some kind of god-like genius? You're a fool! You're nothing but a stupid creationist! And, like your Orange Calf, you are such an incredible loser because you completely lack any kind of self-awareness.
Consider the following a parable, though in this case the meaning is not hidden:
In most group dance classes, most of us rotate to different partners during the lesson. One day my Lindy instructor explain to the class why that was. Some students are better than others, so with some partners you will have problems doing the move but not with others. So if you're having problems with a partner, don't worry about it because you will soon rotate to a new partner who hopefully is better. Then he added: but if you're having problems with every partner, then you are the problem.
Littleman, have you noticed by now that every single forum you go to you have problems on that forum. That nobody ever recognizes your "prodigious genius"? That everybody else is a problem?
Well, that means that you are the problem!
Shouldn't take a genius to figure out that one!
You don't know how biological evolution works and your posts reveal that.
I know far better than you how biological evolution works. I even know the difference between sexual and asexual reproduction, something that you still don't know. And I also know the importance of math models -- you cannot "do the math" and get meaningful results without any math model or, far worse, with the wrong model. And since you demonstrate that you do not know how biological evolution works, your math being based on your inability to understand evolution is nichts als ganz Scheiß.
Remember ringo's question for you, one of the most basic questions regarding descent?
ringo writes:
Do you understand yet that A → B and A → C are NOT the same as B → C ?
You can't answer that question, can you? If you were to know something about biological evolution, you would be able to, but you can't.
I can answer that question, because I do understand biological evolution. Furthermore, I also know what that question is referring to and why he's asking you it. I even had to explain it to candle2, who being a typical creationist refused to even look at the explanation, afraid to learn something.
Just as you, creationist, refuse to even approach his question. Because your answer will expose you as not understanding biological evolution ... and that all your handwaving BS about "evolution" (whatever silly creationist nonsense you believe in that you call by that name) is just more of your garbage.
You're nothing but a stupid creationist. Or in the words of Marcus Lycus that I've shared before with your circle-jerk buddy, Dredge (who also will never learn):
quote:
But you'll never learn, you'll be a eunuch all your life.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2247 by Kleinman, posted 11-27-2022 2:44 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2261 by Kleinman, posted 11-27-2022 4:58 PM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 2259 of 2926 (902800)
11-27-2022 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 2257 by Kleinman
11-27-2022 4:37 PM


Re: The People v Alan Kleinman
Right on schedule with more of your troll garbage.
Are things falling apart in your circle-jerk with Dredge? Are you trying to compete with him to be the worst stupid troll on the forum?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2257 by Kleinman, posted 11-27-2022 4:37 PM Kleinman has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 2262 of 2926 (902805)
11-27-2022 5:02 PM
Reply to: Message 2260 by AZPaul3
11-27-2022 4:47 PM


Re: A Simple Question
Kleinman writes:
I'm a Messianic Jew (for AZPaul3 sake about me being a Catholic)
Is there a difference?
Actually, yeah. The same difference as between Catholics and Protestants (neither of whom considers the other to be Christian, though Protestants then turn around and do the same to most other Protestants -- even fundamentalists denounce most other fundamentalist sects for not being "true Christians").
Messianic Judaism a Protestant Christian sect which grew out of the Jesus Freak Movement of the 1960's -- or rather the Jesus Freaks triggered a change in the Jewish converts away from assimilation:
quote:
The Messianic Jewish movement emerged in the United States in the 1960s. Prior to this time, Jewish converts assimilated into gentile Christianity, as the church required abandoning their Jewishness and assuming gentile ways to receive baptism. Peter Hocken postulates that the Jesus movement which swept the nation in the 1960s triggered a change from Hebrew Christians to Messianic Jews, and was a distinctly charismatic movement. These Jews wanted to "stay Jewish while believing in Jesus". This impulse was amplified by the results of the Six-Day War and the restoration of Jerusalem to Jewish control.
So the guy is a fundie. And a creationist. Not much different from candle2 -- they do both have similar styles, though at least Kleinman appears to be better educated even though he doesn't use it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2260 by AZPaul3, posted 11-27-2022 4:47 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2265 by Kleinman, posted 11-27-2022 5:10 PM dwise1 has replied

  
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