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Author | Topic: Coffee House Musings on Creationist Topic Proposals | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined:
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xongsmith writes: So you're kind of arguing that just because rocks on a beach gradually all get rounded doesn't mean they all came from one ancient rock? My guess is that there's some strange area in some believer's minds that thinks "evolution is real, it must be accounted for... but God is real too and also must be accounted for... therefore... maybe God started evolution! Yeah! If that's true, then science can't know about a natural way for evolution to start!" Which is, really, ridiculous.I mean - if you're already acknowledging that science-discovered evolution is a real thing and just a tool of God's... then what's wrong with abiogenesis and UCD also being science-discovered real things and just tool's of God's... But... if a believer is going to go down that road, I see how Dredge's line of reasoning makes sense in those terms.-if someone doesn't really know a lot about evolution and biology -couple that with someone who doesn't want UCD to be a real thing Result: you get someone using a bunch of big biology words in sentences that don't make sense. Which is what I'm having a ton of fun doing: taking silly statements about evolution and biology and exposing just how silly they are to everyone by showing a similar analogy that everyone understands. Like this:
Dredge writes: Tell me, how many scientists had to believe in Universal Common Descent in order for those genetic similarities to exist? It's a really ignorant, silly question.Equivalent to: "Tell me, how many customers had to believe in nuts and bolts in order for vehicles to be manufactured?" None.The silly answer to the silly question is an incredibly obvious, and incredibly irrelevant "none" And the point is that nuts and bolts are still irrevocably important to the manufacture of vehicles. Understanding this importance leads to greater vehicle technology.And the point is that UCD is still irrevocably important to those genetic similarities existing. Understanding this importance leads to greater biological/medicinal technology.
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined:
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Dredge writes: If no one believed in UCD, would those genetic similarities still exist? "If no one believed in nuts and bolts, would those vehicles still stay together?" Of course.The silly answer to the silly question is an incredibly obvious, and incredibly irrelevant "of course." And the point is that nuts and bolts are still irrevocably important to the manufacture of vehicles. Understanding this importance leads to greater vehicle technology.And the point is that UCD is still irrevocably important to those genetic similarities existing. Understanding this importance leads to greater biological/medicinal technology.
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined:
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Dredge writes: Okay, so you agree that those genetic similarities exist without anyone accepting the theory of UCD. Of course, just like gravity exists without anyone accepting the Theory of Gravity.Or just like vehicles exist without any customers accepting the existence of nuts and bolts. Since that is so, now explain why it's necessary for medical science to accept the theory of UCD in order to make use of those genetic similarities. It's not necessary.Medicinal science moved along (incredibly slow, and incredibly limited, and incredibly wrong) for hundreds of years without acknowledging UCD. -your barber would be your doctor -many drugs and vaccines were discovered by accident (like penicillin and the smallpox vaccine) -only a handful of vaccines existed Without UCD medical science would still exist.And it would still be moving incredibly slow. And we would be no where near the technology and understanding and progress we have today. In understanding UCD and how it pervades all of biology, medical science is able to harness this knowledge to develop more drugs and vaccines and technologies and progression takes off at an incredible pace. Such is the power of knowledge and application. Just like how nuts and bolts aren't necessary for vehicles.But they sure as hell make them easier to build. And understanding nuts and bolts will help the progression of vehicle technology grow at an incredible rate as compared to that without them. The point of the discussion is whether or not accepting the theory of UCD has provided a practical use in medicine or biology. And the answer is yes. Just as nuts and bolts have provided a practical use in vehicles.Are they necessary? Nope. Do they allow for incredible increases in technology and progress? Yup. Such is the way of UCD in medical science. And the point is that nuts and bolts are irrevocably important to the manufacture of vehicles. Understanding this importance leads to greater vehicle technology.And the point is that UCD is irrevocably important to those genetic similarities existing. Understanding this importance leads to greater biological/medicinal technology. Would you like to keep running around in this circle?You're going to burn a hole in the floor.
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: |
Dredge writes: If UCD is so important to biological and medical science, why is it that you can't cite even ONE EXAMPLE of how the UCD has made a practical contribution to biological or medical science? Would you like it cited again? From Message 751:​ quote: Another round!
Dredge writes: All you've got to offer to back up the Darwinist claim you've been brainwashed with is a dumb and irrelevant analogy about "nuts and bolts". It's not dumb or irrelevant. It applies very well. In fact, I may contact some schools to see if they want to use it.
Stile ... give up. On what? I'm not "trying" in order to have to give up.I mean... I'm just relaying simple reality to you. That's all. The point is that nuts and bolts are irrevocably important to the manufacture of vehicles. Understanding this importance leads to greater vehicle technology.The point is that UCD is irrevocably important to those genetic similarities existing. Understanding this importance leads to greater biological/medicinal technology.
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: |
Theodoric writes: This process continues til the troll claims victory and makes a new outlandish claim. Shhhhh... you'll scare him away. I have an over-under on how many times he'll do it and I'm almost winning!
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined:
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Dredge writes: You've misquoted me. I said "Stile, give up." I told you: I'm not "trying" in order to have to give up.I mean... I'm just relaying simple reality to you. That's all. Please be advised that your new name is "Stile". My name has always been Stile.
I think you might actually be missing a few "nuts and bolts". If you don't understand the concept, feel free to ask questions. The analogy works quite well, as your previous questions have shown. The point is that nuts and bolts are irrevocably important to the manufacture of vehicles. Understanding this importance leads to greater vehicle technology.The point is that UCD is irrevocably important to those genetic similarities existing. Understanding this importance leads to greater biological/medicinal technology.
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: |
Dredge writes: I have changed your name to "Stile". You don't have a say in the matter. Sure. The point is that nuts and bolts are irrevocably important to the manufacture of vehicles. Understanding this importance leads to greater vehicle technology.The point is that UCD is irrevocably important to those genetic similarities existing. Understanding this importance leads to greater biological/medicinal technology.
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: |
Dredge writes: NeVeR mEnTiOn It AgAiN. It's okay, just ask if you have any questions. The point is that nuts and bolts are irrevocably important to the manufacture of vehicles. Understanding this importance leads to greater vehicle technology.The point is that UCD is irrevocably important to those genetic similarities existing. Understanding this importance leads to greater biological/medicinal technology.
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined:
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Dredge writes: Listen, Stile I'm glad you asked. You see, it's a decent analogy because it relates to how fundamental UCD is to biology and technological advancements of medicine.Just as nuts and bolts are fundamental to the production of vehicles. And most people understand how vehicles are very reliant on nuts and bolts - even though nuts and bolts are not generally mentioned in manuals or descriptions of how the vehicle works. But most people don't understand a lot about how important UCD is to biology and medicinal technology. So this analogy really reaches out to them and help them get a feeling for just how much of a fundamental aspect UCD really is. The point is that nuts and bolts are irrevocably important to the manufacture of vehicles. Understanding this importance leads to greater vehicle technology.The point is that UCD is irrevocably important to those genetic similarities existing. Understanding this importance leads to greater biological/medicinal technology.
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined:
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Dredge writes: Stile, you're a bloody fool Yes, I really should be including welds with the nuts and bolts.But I just prefer the gritty old-time feel of the phrase "nuts and bolts" that really drives home the fundamental aspect of the analogy. The point is that nuts and bolts are irrevocably important to the manufacture of vehicles. Understanding this importance leads to greater vehicle technology.The point is that UCD is irrevocably important to those genetic similarities existing. Understanding this importance leads to greater biological/medicinal technology.
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined:
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Dredge writes: If no one believed evolution created those genetic similarities, would those genetic similarities still exist? "If no one believed nuts and bolts held things together, would vehicles remain assembled?" Round and round again! The point is that nuts and bolts are irrevocably important to the manufacture of vehicles. Understanding this importance leads to greater vehicle technology.The point is that UCD is irrevocably important to those genetic similarities existing. Understanding this importance leads to greater biological/medicinal technology.
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: |
Taq writes: Guiding research is a very practical use, whether you like it or not. It is, quite possibly, the most practical use.
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined:
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Dredge writes: Using animal models doesn't require accepting the theory of UCD "Driving a car doesn't require accepting nuts and bolts." Say it again!
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined:
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Dredge writes: That's right - driving a car doesn't require any knowledge of "nuts and bolts", nor any knowledge of how cars evolved. Absolutely.Thanks for coming around. The point is that nuts and bolts are irrevocably important to the manufacture of vehicles. Understanding this importance leads to greater vehicle technology.The point is that UCD is irrevocably important to those genetic similarities existing. Understanding this importance leads to greater biological/medicinal technology.
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined:
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Dredge writes: Show me a scientific paper that says Covid vaccines work because of UCD. Show me a user manual that says vehicles work because of nuts and bolts The point is that nuts and bolts are irrevocably important to the manufacture of vehicles. Understanding this importance leads to greater vehicle technology.The point is that UCD is irrevocably important to those genetic similarities existing. Understanding this importance leads to greater biological/medicinal technology.
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