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Author Topic:   Coffee House Musings on Creationist Topic Proposals
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(2)
Message 945 of 1429 (900506)
10-28-2022 8:35 AM
Reply to: Message 944 by xongsmith
10-28-2022 8:06 AM


Re: UCD evidence
xongsmith writes:
So you're kind of arguing that just because rocks on a beach gradually all get rounded doesn't mean they all came from one ancient rock?
My guess is that there's some strange area in some believer's minds that thinks "evolution is real, it must be accounted for... but God is real too and also must be accounted for... therefore... maybe God started evolution! Yeah! If that's true, then science can't know about a natural way for evolution to start!"
Which is, really, ridiculous.
I mean - if you're already acknowledging that science-discovered evolution is a real thing and just a tool of God's... then what's wrong with abiogenesis and UCD also being science-discovered real things and just tool's of God's...
But... if a believer is going to go down that road, I see how Dredge's line of reasoning makes sense in those terms.
-if someone doesn't really know a lot about evolution and biology
-couple that with someone who doesn't want UCD to be a real thing
Result: you get someone using a bunch of big biology words in sentences that don't make sense.
Which is what I'm having a ton of fun doing: taking silly statements about evolution and biology and exposing just how silly they are to everyone by showing a similar analogy that everyone understands.
Like this:
Dredge writes:
Tell me, how many scientists had to believe in Universal Common Descent in order for those genetic similarities to exist?
It's a really ignorant, silly question.
Equivalent to:
"Tell me, how many customers had to believe in nuts and bolts in order for vehicles to be manufactured?"
None.
The silly answer to the silly question is an incredibly obvious, and incredibly irrelevant "none"
And the point is that nuts and bolts are still irrevocably important to the manufacture of vehicles. Understanding this importance leads to greater vehicle technology.
And the point is that UCD is still irrevocably important to those genetic similarities existing. Understanding this importance leads to greater biological/medicinal technology.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 944 by xongsmith, posted 10-28-2022 8:06 AM xongsmith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 947 by Dredge, posted 10-28-2022 10:19 AM Stile has seen this message but not replied
 Message 948 by Dredge, posted 10-28-2022 10:20 AM Stile has replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(1)
Message 952 of 1429 (900534)
10-28-2022 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 948 by Dredge
10-28-2022 10:20 AM


Re: UCD evidence
Dredge writes:
If no one believed in UCD, would those genetic similarities still exist?
"If no one believed in nuts and bolts, would those vehicles still stay together?"
Of course.
The silly answer to the silly question is an incredibly obvious, and incredibly irrelevant "of course."
And the point is that nuts and bolts are still irrevocably important to the manufacture of vehicles. Understanding this importance leads to greater vehicle technology.
And the point is that UCD is still irrevocably important to those genetic similarities existing. Understanding this importance leads to greater biological/medicinal technology.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 948 by Dredge, posted 10-28-2022 10:20 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 953 by Dredge, posted 10-29-2022 1:13 AM Stile has replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(2)
Message 960 of 1429 (900722)
10-31-2022 9:01 AM
Reply to: Message 953 by Dredge
10-29-2022 1:13 AM


Re: UCD evidence
Dredge writes:
Okay, so you agree that those genetic similarities exist without anyone accepting the theory of UCD.
Of course, just like gravity exists without anyone accepting the Theory of Gravity.
Or just like vehicles exist without any customers accepting the existence of nuts and bolts.
Since that is so, now explain why it's necessary for medical science to accept the theory of UCD in order to make use of those genetic similarities.
It's not necessary.
Medicinal science moved along (incredibly slow, and incredibly limited, and incredibly wrong) for hundreds of years without acknowledging UCD.
-your barber would be your doctor
-many drugs and vaccines were discovered by accident (like penicillin and the smallpox vaccine)
-only a handful of vaccines existed
Without UCD medical science would still exist.
And it would still be moving incredibly slow.
And we would be no where near the technology and understanding and progress we have today.
In understanding UCD and how it pervades all of biology, medical science is able to harness this knowledge to develop more drugs and vaccines and technologies and progression takes off at an incredible pace. Such is the power of knowledge and application.
Just like how nuts and bolts aren't necessary for vehicles.
But they sure as hell make them easier to build.
And understanding nuts and bolts will help the progression of vehicle technology grow at an incredible rate as compared to that without them.
The point of the discussion is whether or not accepting the theory of UCD has provided a practical use in medicine or biology.
And the answer is yes.
Just as nuts and bolts have provided a practical use in vehicles.
Are they necessary? Nope. Do they allow for incredible increases in technology and progress? Yup.
Such is the way of UCD in medical science.
And the point is that nuts and bolts are irrevocably important to the manufacture of vehicles. Understanding this importance leads to greater vehicle technology.
And the point is that UCD is irrevocably important to those genetic similarities existing. Understanding this importance leads to greater biological/medicinal technology.
Would you like to keep running around in this circle?
You're going to burn a hole in the floor.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 953 by Dredge, posted 10-29-2022 1:13 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 961 by Dredge, posted 10-31-2022 10:08 AM Stile has replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 1001 of 1429 (901002)
11-03-2022 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 961 by Dredge
10-31-2022 10:08 AM


Re: UCD evidence
Dredge writes:
If UCD is so important to biological and medical science, why is it that you can't cite even ONE EXAMPLE of how the UCD has made a practical contribution to biological or medical science?
Would you like it cited again? From Message 751:
​
quote:
But coming up with new vaccines and medicines, as already listed a few times for you, is a good one.
Another round!
Dredge writes:
All you've got to offer to back up the Darwinist claim you've been brainwashed with is a dumb and irrelevant analogy about "nuts and bolts".
It's not dumb or irrelevant. It applies very well. In fact, I may contact some schools to see if they want to use it.
Stile ... give up.
On what? I'm not "trying" in order to have to give up.
I mean... I'm just relaying simple reality to you. That's all.
The point is that nuts and bolts are irrevocably important to the manufacture of vehicles. Understanding this importance leads to greater vehicle technology.
The point is that UCD is irrevocably important to those genetic similarities existing. Understanding this importance leads to greater biological/medicinal technology.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 961 by Dredge, posted 10-31-2022 10:08 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1003 by Dredge, posted 11-03-2022 3:57 PM Stile has replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 1002 of 1429 (901003)
11-03-2022 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 975 by Theodoric
11-01-2022 12:45 PM


Re: I think the goal post are moving again
Theodoric writes:
This process continues til the troll claims victory and makes a new outlandish claim.
Shhhhh... you'll scare him away.
I have an over-under on how many times he'll do it and I'm almost winning!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 975 by Theodoric, posted 11-01-2022 12:45 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(1)
Message 1016 of 1429 (901051)
11-04-2022 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 1003 by Dredge
11-03-2022 3:57 PM


Re: UCD evidence
Dredge writes:
You've misquoted me. I said "Stile, give up."
I told you:
I'm not "trying" in order to have to give up.
I mean... I'm just relaying simple reality to you. That's all.
Please be advised that your new name is "Stile".
My name has always been Stile.
I think you might actually be missing a few "nuts and bolts".
If you don't understand the concept, feel free to ask questions. The analogy works quite well, as your previous questions have shown.
The point is that nuts and bolts are irrevocably important to the manufacture of vehicles. Understanding this importance leads to greater vehicle technology.
The point is that UCD is irrevocably important to those genetic similarities existing. Understanding this importance leads to greater biological/medicinal technology.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1003 by Dredge, posted 11-03-2022 3:57 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1021 by Dredge, posted 11-04-2022 11:02 AM Stile has replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 1022 of 1429 (901059)
11-04-2022 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 1021 by Dredge
11-04-2022 11:02 AM


Re: UCD evidence
Dredge writes:
I have changed your name to "Stile". You don't have a say in the matter.
Sure.
The point is that nuts and bolts are irrevocably important to the manufacture of vehicles. Understanding this importance leads to greater vehicle technology.
The point is that UCD is irrevocably important to those genetic similarities existing. Understanding this importance leads to greater biological/medicinal technology.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1021 by Dredge, posted 11-04-2022 11:02 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1023 by Dredge, posted 11-04-2022 11:26 AM Stile has replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 1034 of 1429 (901076)
11-04-2022 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1023 by Dredge
11-04-2022 11:26 AM


Re: UCD evidence
Dredge writes:
NeVeR mEnTiOn It AgAiN.
It's okay, just ask if you have any questions.
The point is that nuts and bolts are irrevocably important to the manufacture of vehicles. Understanding this importance leads to greater vehicle technology.
The point is that UCD is irrevocably important to those genetic similarities existing. Understanding this importance leads to greater biological/medicinal technology.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1023 by Dredge, posted 11-04-2022 11:26 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1037 by Dredge, posted 11-04-2022 12:31 PM Stile has replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(2)
Message 1040 of 1429 (901091)
11-04-2022 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1037 by Dredge
11-04-2022 12:31 PM


Re: UCD evidence
Dredge writes:
Listen, Stile
I'm glad you asked.
You see, it's a decent analogy because it relates to how fundamental UCD is to biology and technological advancements of medicine.
Just as nuts and bolts are fundamental to the production of vehicles.
And most people understand how vehicles are very reliant on nuts and bolts - even though nuts and bolts are not generally mentioned in manuals or descriptions of how the vehicle works.
But most people don't understand a lot about how important UCD is to biology and medicinal technology. So this analogy really reaches out to them and help them get a feeling for just how much of a fundamental aspect UCD really is.
The point is that nuts and bolts are irrevocably important to the manufacture of vehicles. Understanding this importance leads to greater vehicle technology.
The point is that UCD is irrevocably important to those genetic similarities existing. Understanding this importance leads to greater biological/medicinal technology.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1037 by Dredge, posted 11-04-2022 12:31 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1041 by Dredge, posted 11-05-2022 12:25 AM Stile has replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(1)
Message 1045 of 1429 (901123)
11-05-2022 9:20 AM
Reply to: Message 1041 by Dredge
11-05-2022 12:25 AM


Re: UCD evidence
Dredge writes:
Stile, you're a bloody fool
Yes, I really should be including welds with the nuts and bolts.
But I just prefer the gritty old-time feel of the phrase "nuts and bolts" that really drives home the fundamental aspect of the analogy.
The point is that nuts and bolts are irrevocably important to the manufacture of vehicles. Understanding this importance leads to greater vehicle technology.
The point is that UCD is irrevocably important to those genetic similarities existing. Understanding this importance leads to greater biological/medicinal technology.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1041 by Dredge, posted 11-05-2022 12:25 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(1)
Message 1046 of 1429 (901124)
11-05-2022 9:25 AM
Reply to: Message 1043 by Dredge
11-05-2022 12:57 AM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Dredge writes:
If no one believed evolution created those genetic similarities, would those genetic similarities still exist?
"If no one believed nuts and bolts held things together, would vehicles remain assembled?"
Round and round again!
The point is that nuts and bolts are irrevocably important to the manufacture of vehicles. Understanding this importance leads to greater vehicle technology.
The point is that UCD is irrevocably important to those genetic similarities existing. Understanding this importance leads to greater biological/medicinal technology.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1043 by Dredge, posted 11-05-2022 12:57 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 1094 of 1429 (901901)
11-15-2022 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 1093 by Taq
11-15-2022 1:59 PM


Re: UCD evidence
Taq writes:
Guiding research is a very practical use, whether you like it or not.
It is, quite possibly, the most practical use.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1093 by Taq, posted 11-15-2022 1:59 PM Taq has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1095 by Dredge, posted 11-15-2022 2:31 PM Stile has seen this message but not replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(2)
Message 1106 of 1429 (902133)
11-18-2022 8:15 AM
Reply to: Message 1104 by Dredge
11-17-2022 5:38 PM


Re: UCD evidence
Dredge writes:
Using animal models doesn't require accepting the theory of UCD
"Driving a car doesn't require accepting nuts and bolts."
Say it again!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1104 by Dredge, posted 11-17-2022 5:38 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1112 by Dredge, posted 11-19-2022 12:44 PM Stile has replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(1)
Message 1124 of 1429 (902367)
11-22-2022 12:29 PM
Reply to: Message 1112 by Dredge
11-19-2022 12:44 PM


Re: UCD evidence
Dredge writes:
That's right - driving a car doesn't require any knowledge of "nuts and bolts", nor any knowledge of how cars evolved.
Absolutely.
Thanks for coming around.
The point is that nuts and bolts are irrevocably important to the manufacture of vehicles. Understanding this importance leads to greater vehicle technology.
The point is that UCD is irrevocably important to those genetic similarities existing. Understanding this importance leads to greater biological/medicinal technology.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1112 by Dredge, posted 11-19-2022 12:44 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(4)
Message 1130 of 1429 (902385)
11-23-2022 8:29 AM
Reply to: Message 1128 by Dredge
11-22-2022 10:50 PM


Re: UCD evidence
Dredge writes:
Show me a scientific paper that says Covid vaccines work because of UCD.
Show me a user manual that says vehicles work because of nuts and bolts
The point is that nuts and bolts are irrevocably important to the manufacture of vehicles. Understanding this importance leads to greater vehicle technology.
The point is that UCD is irrevocably important to those genetic similarities existing. Understanding this importance leads to greater biological/medicinal technology.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1128 by Dredge, posted 11-22-2022 10:50 PM Dredge has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1131 by Theodoric, posted 11-23-2022 10:11 AM Stile has seen this message but not replied

  
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