Evangelical Support Group

If He is doing that, why are you so wrong-headed about so many things?

Because I'm human.

So he is not giving you wisdom that education and secular information alone cannot provide. And he sure hasn't given you the critical thinking skills to discern reality from your religious fantasy. He has, and is, giving you nothing. Just like he doesn't exist. Imagine that.

The only way I would "imagine"that is if I preferred that reality...which I don't..The God I believe in can only be ignored by you because He allows you that freedom.

In exchange for what? I'm free to be me so now I owe him something? Forever servitude in the choir, maybe? A BBQ stand in Camp Lake 'O Fire?

He might keep you around for your sense of humor...if nothing else.

So are all of us. And there are many people on this forum who don't have your God whispering in their ears who are much better thinkers than you. Your God may actually be holding you back.

You don't get the reality you "prefer". You only get the real one. He allows us the freedom to not allow Him to hold us back? Nice.

I really respect your response and world view.
You hit the nail on the by suggesting societal consensus.
I feel that society must find common ground that transcends both religious beliefs and political ldeology. Facts may suggest that religions are based on myths but people would die to defend their beliefs....though in today's world they need not do so.We all will likely face some tough times together. Let's not ruin the opportunity to help each other.

Keep in mind that anytime He would hold us back it would always be for our benefit.Our free will gives us the power to complicate our future.

You keep contradicting yourself. You claim that "free will" allows us to learn for ourselves - and now you claim that God holds us back from our free will so we don't have to learn for ourselves.

In order to understand my convoluted logic, let's examine your beliefs apriori.

You don't believe that GOD exists, or the Judeo-Christian one, at any rate.

You believe that Jesus was a mythically created historical character.

You don't believe that there is a spiritual conflict between good and evil, apart from in our minds.

Having now asserted that humans already know the difference between good and bad behavior and actions, you conclude that the message alone is important and, like jar, say only that we are expected to feed, clothe, and shelter everyone

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No wonder you think I send a confusing message. You think that free will means that we figure it all out for ourselves, assume that humans are basically good (without the need of an alien overlord, as you so glibly claim) and that no God is required, even if
one existed.

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I, on the other hand, think that God is basically the Judeo-Christian one, made personal and understanding through Jesus. I believe that humans will never make it without God's interference and that we will learn this the hard way if we continue on your secular path.

No, I don't believe He was a historical character. He was, and is, a fictional character. And that's not a belief. It's based on evidence (or lack of evidence). I don't believe there is anything "spiritual", apart from our minds. Just like you don't believe there is anything leprechaunal, apart from our minds. And you don't believe there is anything Santa Clausal, apart from our minds. No need to assert it. It's a conclusion based on evidence. And it isn't just humans; it's every social species. That's what free will means. What you seem to be talking about is "cheap will", where you always have a backup god to magically fix your bad "free" decisions. But we know that isn't true - because your bad decisions don't get fixed unless you fix them yourself. Again, not an assumption, a conclusion. Social species, yada yada yada. You're a living demonstration of that. Your belief in your made-up god is a stumbling-block.You said you were going to help us understand your convoluted logic but you didn't. Here's what you quoted:

quote:

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You claim that "free will" allows us to learn for ourselves - and now you claim that God holds us back from our free will so we don't have to learn for ourselves.

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Explain.

Kindly explain the difference between a made-up God in 2022 versus a made-up God penned by any number of Biblical writers. You can't have it both ways. If they made God up, how is it any different than me making Him up??(apart from you preferring their version of God, expounded upon in scripture)

The difference is that the Biblical writers didn't know any better. You ought to.The Biblical writers didn't have science to guide them. You ought to. You're the one who wants to have it both ways. You piggyback on the Bible when it suits you and deny it when it doesn't suit you.I, on the other hand, am pretty consistent:
1. The Bible says what it says.
2. Much of what it says is wrong. They made up a nasty God who punished them for stepping out of line. You make up a white-washed God who only asks you to do what you already want to do. I don't prefer ANY god.And if YOU are going to ever mention scripture at all, you need to learn to accept it as it is.