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Author Topic:   I Know That God Does Not Exist
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 3189 of 3207 (898129)
09-19-2022 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 3187 by Phat
09-19-2022 1:16 AM


Re: wrong spirit
Phat writes:
Where do you get the idea that His life was taken from Him by force?
He was taken by force by the equivalent of the police. He stopped Peter from resisting but they would have lost that fight anyway. He was taken by force before the Sanhedrin. He was taken by force before Pilate. He didn't put up much of a defense but He couldn't, could He? He DID claim to be King of the Jews. He was guilty.
Now YOU tell us where you got the idea that "He laid His life down of Himself". He didn't march voluntarily up to Pilate and say, "Please crucify me."

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3187 by Phat, posted 09-19-2022 1:16 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 3192 of 3207 (899788)
10-19-2022 12:59 PM
Reply to: Message 3190 by Dredge
10-19-2022 4:11 AM


John writes:
No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord.
He didn't though, did He? He didn't go and turn Himself in. They had to come and arrest Him. And even when they did come to arrest Him, He didn't step up. Judas had to point Him out.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3190 by Dredge, posted 10-19-2022 4:11 AM Dredge has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3194 by Phat, posted 11-09-2022 11:28 PM ringo has replied
 Message 3195 by Phat, posted 11-09-2022 11:32 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 3198 of 3207 (901477)
11-10-2022 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 3194 by Phat
11-09-2022 11:28 PM


Phat writes:
Why should He step up?
Have you lost the plot completely?
I said in Message 3183, "He didn't 'give' His life. It was taken..."
Dredge replied in Message 3190, in a quote from John 10: 17-18, ""For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life, that I may take it again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord."
And I correctly pointed out in Message 3192 that He DIDN'T lay down His own life. When the authorities came for Him, He DIDN'T step up. He waited for Judas to betray Him.
So what the f**k are you talking about? Why SHOULD He step up? If He was voluntarily laying down His life, He WOULD have stepped up. He DIDN't step up, so He DIDN'T lay down His life voluntarily, which is what I've been saying all along.
Phat writes:
That would be admitting that His critics were right.
And they were. Did He not claim to be King of the Jews? Did He not claim to be the Son of God?

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3194 by Phat, posted 11-09-2022 11:28 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 3199 of 3207 (901478)
11-10-2022 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 3195 by Phat
11-09-2022 11:32 PM


Phat writes:
Why should He give in to them?
Well, YOUR theology claims that He came to save us. YOUR theology claims that He had to die to do that. How could he do that without giving in to the authorities?
Phat writes:
They fabricated lies about Him.
Did He not say He was King of the Jews? Did He not say He was the Son of God?
Phat writes:
He owed them no apology nor need to surrender to demons
Where do demons enter into it at all? Where are they mentioned in the story? According to YOUR OWN theology, why would demons help Jesus to fulfill His mission?
Why are you so enamoured with demons?

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3195 by Phat, posted 11-09-2022 11:32 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3200 by dwise1, posted 11-10-2022 12:03 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 3201 of 3207 (901480)
11-10-2022 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 3200 by dwise1
11-10-2022 12:03 PM


dwise1 writes:
Multiple fundamentalists have described to me that experience and they are absolutely convinced that they were being attacked by a demon.
Reminds me of being "slain in the spirit". A Biblical example would be what happened to Saul/Paul on the road to Damascus (Acts 9:1-5}.
According to Wikipedia,
quote:
Sociologist Margaret Poloma has defined slaying in the Spirit as "the power of the Holy Spirit so filling a person with a heightened inner awareness that the body's energy fades away and the person collapses to the floor".
But,
quote:
Not all incidents of falling or swooning in Pentecostal and charismatic churches are attributed to the Holy Spirit. Besides the possibility of fraud, charismatics may also attribute the behavior to demonic activity.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3200 by dwise1, posted 11-10-2022 12:03 PM dwise1 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3202 by Phat, posted 11-14-2022 6:24 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 3204 of 3207 (901720)
11-14-2022 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 3202 by Phat
11-14-2022 6:24 AM


Re: Sleep Paralysis
Phat writes:
In fact, I remember one time that I experienced sleep paralysis and I too thought I was being attacked by a demon. The reason was the intense fear that I experienced during the paralysis.
So you know what the cause of "demon attacks" is and yet you still believe in literal demons?

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3202 by Phat, posted 11-14-2022 6:24 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3206 by Phat, posted 11-14-2022 4:06 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 3207 of 3207 (901864)
11-15-2022 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 3206 by Phat
11-14-2022 4:06 PM


Re: Sleep Paralysis
Phat writes:
I know the cause of sleep paralysis.
You thought it was demons when it happened. Now that you KNOW there is at least one natural cause, why would you still cling to superstition?
Phat writes:
If demons were involved, they would only be attacking people that way...which makes no sense.
Of course it makes no sense. Why would you even think that all "demon attacks" were the same?
Phat writes:
Your problem, OTOH, is that you have eliminated any possible supernatural (unexplained) activity from either the Holy Spirit or the wannabe creations simply due to a lack of evidence.
How is that a problem?
I have also eliminated any possible supernatural activity from explanations of how airplanes fly. No angels blowing on the bottom of the wings. How is that a problem? Far from it, the BENEFIT if eliminating superstition is that we can actually understand what is happening and make airplanes fly better.
Phat writes:
Plus I suspect that you don't want there to be any sort of alien overlord at all.
Who does?

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3206 by Phat, posted 11-14-2022 4:06 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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