Rebuttal To Creationists - "Since We Can't Directly Observe Evolution..."

It's a bit ironic given the fact Kleinman is obsessed with poop bacteria like E. coli.

Especially since he obviously doesn't know his sh*t?

Reading what he has written here about sexual reproduction, and selection and mutations, I have to conclude that either he didn't take any biology courses or he was a really crappy student. And his obsessive hatred of fossils and nested hierarchies and the way he expresses it demonstrates a lack of scientific rigor and integrity. I suspect his bitterness is a result of his papers not just being ignored by science, but rejected, but I think his anti-science bias has been a lifelong worldview.

That's really funny too, because somewhere upthread he referred to his disgust at the idea of being related to "shit throwing chimps."

As my wife is an MD I know quite a few doctors. There are many that are not that bright outside of the specific field and a number are the same within their field. Most MDs are not scientists and are unaware of the scientific method.
Remember what they call the person that graduates last in their class. Doctor.

Having worked with MD's, PhD's, and MD/PhD's in a basic science research setting, I thought I might chime in.The biggest hurdle an MD has is a lack of lab knowledge. They may have a good kernel of an idea, but they don't know how it can be tested in the lab or how to design scientifically solid methodologies. MD's are often the "idea person", and they will hire staff to run the lab and teach the MD how their idea can be fleshed out into a real research project. It is extremely rare for an MD to be designing and running the experiments themselves. In fact, it is somewhat rare for PhD's (i.e. the principal investigator) to be running the experiments, but at least they have a good understanding of the lab work that is being done. A career in basic science research is a career of constantly learning new techniques, technologies, and data analysis pipelines which also teaches you how to learn. It is this experience that MD's lack, which is absolutely not their fault. That's why the good MD's recognize their inadequacies, hire staff to fill those holes, and learn where they can. The bad MD's . . . they usually don't get far in research. Large egos get in the way.Clinical trials are a bit different. These are usually sponsored by a pharmaceutical company, so there are already well written and vetted protocols that are FDA approved, so the MD just has to follow the protocol. All of the nitty-gritty details are usually handled by a clinical study nurse with the doctor focused on patient care.

Vegetables don't question scientists, which makes them smarter than you.

Theodoric:

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The Lawof Thermodynamics has nothing to with the TOE.

Taq:

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Any relationships that do exist are rather mundane. Even Darwin recognized the impact limited resources would have on evolution, and one could say that is tied to the 1LoT. It's not that earth shattering, though.

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These laws govern evolution. Biological competition is governed by the first law of thermodynamics and descent with modification is governed by the second law of thermodynamics. Of course, Taq knows more about the laws of thermodynamics than someone trained in the subject gets a PhD in the subject, and then is tested by the state that verifies he understands the subject. Tell us oh wise one about energy, bestow upon us your wisdom.

Kleinman:

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They are until an adaptive recombination event occurs or a mutation gives an A or B allele where none existed.

Taq:

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Then your addition rule doesn't apply to any variants in the human genome. A recombination event will put any de novo beneficial mutation into the same genome that contains many, many already existing beneficial variants, and those recombination events occur with every single offspring.
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You do understand that in sexual species there is a recombination event for every single individual, right?

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That equation was peer-reviewed and published by experts in statistical analysis. But Taq knows more about statistics than experts in the fields. Yeah, right! You are wrong Taq, that equation applies to every replicator that does recombination, human or otherwise. Take a course in introductory probability theory and learn how to do this math.

Kleinman:

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Good for you, I hope your readers are convinced. You certainly haven't convinced anyone here except for Tany who spends all his time chasing bugs.

Taq:

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When faced with evidence, this is the best you can do. Go figure.

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So you are going to explain how UCD is true because mutations occur but you can't explain the evolution of antimicrobial-resistant drugs and why cancer treatments fail. Go figure.

Theodoric:

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And the earth is not a closed system.

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The laws of thermodynamics apply to open and closed systems. You just don't know how to do it.

Kleinman:

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And the earth is not a closed system.

Taq:

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Funny how creationists can never understand this simple concept.

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Oh wise one, tell us how the laws of thermodynamics don't apply to an open system.

Kleinman:

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How would you know, you can't do the simplest example of biological evolution.

dwise1:

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What the hell is that supposed to mean? "do an example of biological evolution"? If English is a foreign language for you, would you prefer using a different one? Man kann „do“ nicht genau benutzen, als man „machen“ kann, stimmt's? Wakirimasen ka?

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dwise1 does not understand the Kishony experiment, it only has descent with modification operating and negligible amounts of biological competition and no recombination. dwise1 gets very confused.

Kleinman:

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They are until an adaptive recombination event occurs or a mutation gives an A or B allele where none existed. You are a dummy.

PaulK:

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First, adding up the frequencies of different things makes no mathematical sense. The sum of the frequencies of the alleles for any locus will be 1. Adding in the frequencies for another is pointless as any contribution must be cancelled.
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Second, in the situation you describe, the “overlap” will be total for the rarer allele. So it will - unsurprisingly - contribute nothing to the total.

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I'm not summing the frequencies of alleles for any locus. I'm summing the frequencies of alleles at 2 loci. And the sum of the frequency of allele A at locus 1 plus the frequency of allele B at locus 2 plus the frequency of allele C (neither A nor B) at either locus must equal 1. That, of course, takes into account the entire population. There is no intersection of the A and B subsets until either an adaptive recombination event occurs or a mutation occurs on allele C that transitions into an A or B allele when that member has the B or A allele already. Understand rubberband?

Tanypteryx:

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And he keeps trying to imply that there is something morally repugnant about being an entomologist, when everyone knows it's those arachnologist mathematicians.

Taq:

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It's a bit ironic given the fact Kleinman is obsessed with poop bacteria like E. coli.

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Perhaps you think that chasing bugs gives you a magical understanding of biological evolution but it doesn't help when it comes to understanding the evolution of E. coli to an antibiotic or starvation selection pressure.