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Author Topic:   Choosing a faith
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1272 of 3694 (900984)
11-03-2022 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 1260 by Phat
11-03-2022 6:04 AM


Re: What does God want of Us
Phat writes:
Richard Carrier is a hack sent by satan ....
Read Job.
Phat writes:
But of course, you will always believe the guy with academic credentials over any believer.
Duh. When you get on an airplane, don't you want the pilot to have credentials?

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1260 by Phat, posted 11-03-2022 6:04 AM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1273 of 3694 (900985)
11-03-2022 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1268 by Phat
11-03-2022 10:30 AM


Re: Theodoric rushes in to discredit Stobe
Phat writes:
You pick another one of satans minions....
quote:
Matthew 7:1-2 Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
If there was a Satan, and if he had minions, they would be believers.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1268 by Phat, posted 11-03-2022 10:30 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1276 by Phat, posted 11-03-2022 1:41 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1288 of 3694 (901075)
11-04-2022 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1276 by Phat
11-03-2022 1:41 PM


Re: Minions And The People Who Love Them
Phat writes:
I agree that many of the minionswould feast as parasites upon believers but not exclusively.
You're not agreeing. I said that the minions would BE believers. Or at least fake believers like you.
Phat writes:
Satan knows he needs to discredit the church and what better way than from within?
The church does a fine job of discrediting itself. No Satan needed.
Phat writes:
Satan also knows that all he needs to do with the secukar world is to dekude them into thinking that all progressive ideas are good ones.
I asked you to look at the Book of Job. Satan is God's minion.
Phat writes:
The devil is in the details.
The devil is in your head.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1276 by Phat, posted 11-03-2022 1:41 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1318 of 3694 (901313)
11-08-2022 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1317 by Phat
11-08-2022 11:50 AM


Re: The Star Trek Generation
Phat writes:
Humans are far from ready to venture outside our world and explore.
Tell it to Columbus.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1317 by Phat, posted 11-08-2022 11:50 AM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 1335 of 3694 (901415)
11-09-2022 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1320 by Phat
11-08-2022 3:35 PM


Re: Practcing The Art Of Discussion
Phat writes:
Growing up does not mean rejecting the belief as if it is a made up fantasy.
Sure it does. I even mentioned Santa Claus. You grew up to reject Santa Claus. I grew up to reject God for the same reasons.
Phat writes:
Growing up means seeing God(and Jesus as more than simply characters in a book.
How does finding excuses for childish beliefs equate to growing up?
You rejected the God in the book just like I did. The only difference is you made up another god to replace Him.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1320 by Phat, posted 11-08-2022 3:35 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1336 of 3694 (901416)
11-09-2022 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1321 by Phat
11-08-2022 3:39 PM


Re: Welcome Back GDR
Phat writes:
It is a fact that not everyone who professes faith possesses faith.
By their fruits ye shall know them. If they don't pracice faith, they don't have faith. If they don't trust God to take care of them, without retirement plans, they have no faith in Him.
Phat writes:
Its likely that you would judge real Christians solely on their willingness to give everything up...houses, cars, and bank accounts included.
That's what Jesus said. And that's what His real followers did. The disciples didn't follow Him in limousines.
Phat writes:
I realize that Jesus set that standard, but what *you* don't realize is that Jesus is more than a lawgiving character in a book.
You can't make Him "more" than the character in the book by doing less.
Phat writes:
He relates to each of us where we are.
No He does not.
He sets the standard by which we are saved. If there was no standard, there would be no reason for judgement.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1321 by Phat, posted 11-08-2022 3:39 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1337 of 3694 (901417)
11-09-2022 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1322 by Phat
11-08-2022 3:44 PM


Re: Evidence Unplugged
Phat writes:
In matters of supernatural manifestations and healing, the only evidence that survives 2000 years is ongoing reports of witness statements.
Witness statements are damn near worthless when they're brand new. And they deteriorate with age.
Phat writes:
... I would argue that stories with this much importance are preserved remarkably well.
You mean you wish they were preserved remarkably well. In fact, the "importance" of the story has no bearing on how well it is preserved. We know very well that eyewitness accounts of a murder are no more reliable than messages in a game of Telephone.
Phat writes:
They had copies of original manuscripts in which the meaning changed so little as to be negligible.
One step in a game of Telephone may be accurate. But the fact that you're talking about "copies of original manuscripts" shoots you in the foot. There are no original manuscripts - and we have no reason to think that the copies of copies are accurate copies.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1322 by Phat, posted 11-08-2022 3:44 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1338 of 3694 (901419)
11-09-2022 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1323 by Phat
11-08-2022 3:48 PM


Re: Making It All Up
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
They(the authors of scripture) made up a God that YOU don't want.
Nonsense.
You misquoted me. I said, " The God of the Bible is most likely closer to reality than the God that YOU made up - but it still isn't very close to reality." Message 109
Phat writes:
I can read a Bible as well as anybody...
It doesn't make any difference how well you can read the Bible if you disregard what it says in favor of what you wish it said.
Phat writes:
... and have no ax to grind...
You clearly DO have an axe to grind. Why else would you embrace the Bible when it says something you like and reject it when it says something you don't like?
Phat writes:
... unlike the mythicists.
What makes you think the mythicists have an axe to grind?
Phat writes:
And as for Satan being God's minion, I will agree that he was the tempter...
Again, you are NOT agreeing. You're still circling back to your misconception that Satan is the bad guy.
Phat writes:
Satan's basic job according to Job is to make us tougher and separate the contenders from the pretenders.
So he's after the pretenders like you, to make you stop pretending and accept the truth.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1323 by Phat, posted 11-08-2022 3:48 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1344 by Phat, posted 11-10-2022 9:18 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1345 of 3694 (901475)
11-10-2022 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 1344 by Phat
11-10-2022 9:18 AM


Re: Making It All Up
Phat writes:
You are inconsistent in mentioning "the truth.".
Not at all. Did you think I was referring to absolute truth? I was referring to verifiable truth. Truth that is supported by evidence. (Incidentaly, the word "verify" comes from the Latin verus, which means "true". If it ain't verifiable, it ain't true.)
Phat writes:
You don't acknowledge the Bible as truth...
Because it isn't. And you're a fine one to pretend to hold up the Bible as truth when you reject so much of what it says.
Phat writes:
... and then say that anyone who challenges it is making up their own story.
But i don't say that. You can certainly challenge the parts that are blatantly NOT true, like the Flood and the Resurrection. You can use EVIDENCE to challenge them. But YOU challenge the (supposed) word of Jesus and you have no evidence whatsoever that He didn't say them. Your only reason for challenging His instructions is that you don't like them. And that's especially egregious, since you pretend to believe in Jesus. It's obvious that the "Jesus" you believe in is entirely made up to suit you.
Phat writes:
Why is the original storyline any better?
We have evidence for it. The only evidence we have for Jesus is the original story.
Phat writes:
After all if Jesus and His Father were made up to begin with how are the original stories any. better than modern interpretation?
We're not talking about "modern interpretation". We're talking about your self-serving made-up-out-of-thin-air story that happens to have a character named Jesus in it. Since you're denying everything we know about the original Jesu, why do you even call your version "Jesus"? And why don't you ever answer that question?

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1344 by Phat, posted 11-10-2022 9:18 AM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1363 of 3694 (901657)
11-13-2022 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 1347 by GDR
11-10-2022 5:00 PM


Re: What does God want of Us
GDR writes:
So, if you don't want me to keep saying the same thing then don't keep asking the same questions.
Tell that to a teacher. They're going to continue asking the same questions until you come up with the right answer. You're trying to change the questions to fit your answers.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1347 by GDR, posted 11-10-2022 5:00 PM GDR has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 1364 of 3694 (901660)
11-13-2022 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 1353 by Phat
11-10-2022 6:24 PM


Re: What does God want of Us
Phat writes:
There is an uncaused first cause.
That doesn't work. If the first cause doesn't need a cause, then there can be other things that don't need a cause. There is no basis for a "first cause", period.
Phat writes:
In the beginning...intelligence. why is that so improbable?
Unless you can calculate a probability, it is not "improbable".
It's implausible.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1353 by Phat, posted 11-10-2022 6:24 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1365 by Phat, posted 11-13-2022 3:59 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1367 of 3694 (901715)
11-14-2022 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 1365 by Phat
11-13-2022 3:59 PM


Re: What does God want of Us
Phat writes:
That assumes, however, that human evidence eventually defines reality.
It isn't an assumption. It's a conclusion.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1365 by Phat, posted 11-13-2022 3:59 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1439 of 3694 (902669)
11-26-2022 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 1419 by Phat
11-25-2022 2:26 PM


Re: What does God want of Us
Phat writes:
And yet they don't know Jesus.
I know Jesus as well as I know Frodo. (But I don't dismiss the dusty old book and make up my own version of Frodo.)
Phat writes:
They claim to be awaiting objective evidence before they would take a leap of Faith...
"Look before you leap," is a good idea.
Phat writes:
... but it appears to me that this is a convenient excuse.
The convenient excuse is that there is no evidence because God wants us to have faith.
Phat writes:
Human nature does not want what ringo describes as an alien overlord.
I have asked you before and you don't answer: Who WOULD want an alien overlord?

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1419 by Phat, posted 11-25-2022 2:26 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1450 of 3694 (902779)
11-27-2022 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 1448 by Phat
11-27-2022 8:43 AM


Re: The right Place and the right Time
Phat writes:
ringo even says that I am conservative precisely because I am mean and spiteful.
No I do not.
I say you are conservative because you agree with the conservatives about everything. And you quote Trump to insult Joe Biden, Kamala Harris and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
It may just be coincidence that you and the conservatives are both mean and spiteful.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1448 by Phat, posted 11-27-2022 8:43 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1451 by Phat, posted 11-27-2022 3:38 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1506 of 3694 (903106)
12-04-2022 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 1451 by Phat
11-27-2022 3:38 PM


Re: The right Place and the right Time
Phat writes:
I agree with the liberals about social security and unionism. I agree with the conservatives on private property rights...
There isn't much difference between your Democrats and Republicans on private property rights.
Phat writes:
... and on freedom before equality.
As I have said to you before, there is no freedom without equality. As longs as slaves are not treated equally (e.g. the right to form unions) they are not free.
Phat writes:
I do NOT advocate a secular "church": of a government even if the evangelicals have dropped the ball in regard to social welfare.
Nobody does.
However, social welfare is the NUMBER ONE responsibility of society. And if the churches don't do it, the government HAS to.
Phat writes:
Let God judge us...
God's judgement is small consolation to people living on the streets when it's minus 20 Celsius.
Phat writes:
... rather than harpy liberals.
There's that word "harpy" again. Do you even know what it means?

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1451 by Phat, posted 11-27-2022 3:38 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1508 by Phat, posted 12-04-2022 1:33 PM ringo has replied

  
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