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Author | Topic: Coffee House Musings on Creationist Topic Proposals | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dredge Member (Idle past 99 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
How?
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Dredge Member (Idle past 99 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Dredge writes:
If UCD is so important to biological and medical science, why is it that you can't cite even ONE EXAMPLE of how the UCD has made a practical contribution to biological or medical science?Taq writes:
I searched the scientific paper you provided for a practical application of UCD. The following quotes (with emphasis added) sum up what I found therein:
I'm betting you never searched papers to see if this is true?Evolutionary profiling reveals the heterogeneous origins of classes of human disease genes: implications for modeling disease genetics in animals | BMC Ecology and Evolution | Full Text "The novel patterns that we have identified MAY provide new insight into cases where studies using traditional animal models were unable to produce results that translated to humans" .... "we note that the larger set of disease classes do have ancient origins, SUGGESTING that many non-traditional animal models have the POTENTIAL to be useful for studying many human disease genes" ... "From an evolutionary perspective, human disease genes tend to have particularly ancient origins, suggesting that disease-causing mutations are more often identified in “older” genes ... The implications of these observations in the context of how human disease research is conducted ARE NOT WELL UNDERSTOOD" ... "Consequently, it MAY be possible to study disease genes in a broad spectrum of animal models" ... "This analysis suggests that roughly 10% of all human disease genes could POTENTIALLY be better-studied in selected non-bilaterian species" ... "While these remote animal species are less complex than humans, it is QUITE POSSIBLE that studying the most distant forms of these genes would reveal insights into the most basic functions they evolved to perform and, by extension, their relationship to human disease" ... "Thus, this majority set of disease classes MAY also be PROMISING candidates to study in a more diverse set of animal species. Our results imply that there MAY be utility in studying disease genes that have primarily pre-vertebrate origins in non-traditional animal models" ... "Future efforts to extend and refine our analyses could THEORETICALLY produce methods that could direct an investigator to a set of model species that would be well-suited to studying a particular human disease gene or disease class. That said, there are MANY OBSTACLES that make this DIFFICULT TO ACHIEVE AT THE PRESENT TIME." Did you notice the pattern of SPECULATION evident in those quotes? Where is the description of a practical application of UCD? I couldn't find one ... all I found was lots of useless Darwinist THEORIZING about what might have happened millions of years ago and lots of useless SPECULATION.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 99 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Tanypteryx writes:
An explanation of the relatedness is not a practical application of UCD in medical or biological science. And yet we use UCD anyway, because it explains the relatedness.Such an explanation is, in effect, just a useless story.
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4441 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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Of course it's useless to you.
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned! What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
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Dredge Member (Idle past 99 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Tanypteryx writes:
Silence. Well, you suck at making psychological assessments. I recognize reality and would rather describe it accurately, than distort it as you do. Please be advised that you are a seriously brainwashed and clinically delusional Darwinist who is thetefore incapable of recognizing reality. You need help and possibly psychiatric medication.
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Phat Member Posts: 18333 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Of course, your analogy is misleading and irrelevant. What's your point? We can measure the earth. We can observe it from space. Flatness is not an option. How does this relate to my assertion?
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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xongsmith Member Posts: 2587 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 6.5 |
Dredgings:
An explanation of the relatedness is not a practical application of UCD in medical or biological science. Such an explanation is, in effect, just a useless story. NO!Your JOB HERE is to find a single case of Medical or Biological science that reveals that UCD is NOT TRUE. And to present a single practical application that works without it, from a second descent. Come on! Get on it!"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside." Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned! Enjoy every sandwich! - xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale
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Dredge Member (Idle past 99 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
wrongsmith writes:
... two fine examples of why your name has officially been changed to "wrongsmith".
Your JOB HERE is to find a single case of Medical or Biological science that reveals that UCD is NOT TRUE. And to present a single practical application that works without it, from a second descent.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Which means you can't come up with an actual objection to it.
Of course, your analogy is misleading and irrelevant. Phat writes:
It's the same as your assertion. Your god could hypothetically exist - but without evidence that he does exist, he's irrelevant. To be relevant, there has to be evidence of exixtence. What's your point? We can measure the earth. We can observe it from space. Flatness is not an option. How does this relate to my assertion?Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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Taq Member Posts: 10072 Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
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Dredge writes: If no one believed evolution created those genetic similarities between species, would those genetic similarities still exist?
If life didn't evolve there is no reason why we would expect to observe a nested hierarchy. We do observe a nested hierarchy, and this is what evidences evolution.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Dredge writes:
If we discovered genetics, it would be impossible not to conclude Universal Common Descent. Likewise, if no one accepted Universal Common Descent, those genetic similarities would still exist, right?Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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Taq Member Posts: 10072 Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
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Dredge writes: Did you notice the pattern of SPECULATION evident in those quotes? Yes. It's called research. They are using common ancestry to come up with new hypotheses in biomedical research. That is a practical use.
Where is the description of a practical application of UCD? I couldn't find one ... all I found was lots of useless Darwinist THEORIZING about what might have happened millions of years ago and lots of useless SPECULATION. That's what science is, theorizing.
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Taq Member Posts: 10072 Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
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Dredge writes: ... until you get to the level of Phyla, at which point you realise that nested hierarchies exist only within Phyla. The different Phyla themselves don't collectively form a nest hierarchy, thus disproving the theory of UCD. So you accept common ancestry within phyla? Oh, by the way, entire phyla and kingdoms are rooted by phylogenies of shared genes. Root of the universal tree of life based on ancient aminoacyl-tRNA synthetase gene duplications - PubMed
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dredge writes:
1. Get out of the nineteenth century. Talking about "Darwinists" just makes you look foolish. Darwinist assume UCD is a fact....2. Yes, assumptions are treated as fact because they are thoroughly tested. Dredge writes:
1. Get out of the nineteenth century. Talking about "Darwinists" just makes you look foolish. The fact that all life contains DNA is all the genetic evidence a Darwinist need...2. The fact that all DNA is related is the evidence that all life is related. Dredge writes:
You should think. If you did, you would realize that there's a LOT you don't know - and the idea that YOU know better than every biologist on earth is just laughable. ... which makes a farce of the concept of nested hierarchies based on genetics, I should think.Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dredge writes:
I answered that question a long time ago. If medical science coulda/woulda/shoulda made all kinds of discoveries without depending on UCD, why haven't creationists made any discoveries based on their denial of UCD? Btw, I'm still waiting for your response to Message 1056.Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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