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Author Topic:   Evangelical Support Group
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 248 of 331 (900043)
10-22-2022 1:23 PM
Reply to: Message 245 by Phat
10-22-2022 9:37 AM


Re: Human attempts to understand God
Phat writes:
Assuming for a moment that God has human emotions and is governed by them...
OR... the people who made him up wanted him to have human emotions.
Phat writes:
He is the ultimate egomaniac.
You do understand that that's a bad thing, don't you? (Or maybe you don't. Maybe that's why you admire Trump so much, because you've created your god in Trump's image.)
Phat writes:
The only One in the entire universe who knows that everybody and everything needs Him, and needs to need Him.
Wasn't it Thomas Paine who said that people know their own needs better than some goober on a throne an ocean away?
Phat writes:
They gleefully suggest that humans created God and now have no further need of Him.
Correction, NEVER needed him - at least since we stole fire from him, anyway.
Phat writes:
Or they gush on unabashedly how their "skydaddy" is their b*tch and had best give them stimulus checks for eternity.
No, we give each other stimulus checks.
Phat writes:
So the question could be better phrased. Why is God so petty as to need us?
We've been asking you that for a long time. The answer seems to be that you've created your god in your own image.
(I note that YOU don't try to answer your own question.)
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
Should I feel inadequate because the Prime Minister doesn't ask me for advice?
The Prime Minister should be ashamed of himself for *not* asking more of the public (who have lived awhile) for advice.
I said he doesn't ask ME. I didn't say he doesn't ask the public.
I'll tell you anecdotally why I have never voted Conservative:
In every provincial election from the time I turned eighteen until I moved into an apartment three years ago (the politicians can't get in the door), the NDP (socialist) candidate has stood on my doorstep and talked to me in person. EVERY single election (maybe fifteen of them). During that same period of time, NOT ONE Conservative candidate has EVER come to my door. NOT ONE. Full disclosure: ONE conservative canvasser did come to the door ONCE - but I have never met an actual Conservative candidate.
So it is the conservatives who are not consulting me.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 245 by Phat, posted 10-22-2022 9:37 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 250 by Phat, posted 10-23-2022 12:56 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 249 of 331 (900044)
10-22-2022 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 247 by Phat
10-22-2022 9:58 AM


Re: Human attempts to understand God
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
The good father doesn't necessarily spoon-feed his children, either with bread or with knowledge. He encourages them to earn their own bread and seek their own knowledge.
Imagine if this "good father" someday sits them down and separates them into two groups. One group gets to divide the Father's inheritance among themselves. The other group gets nothing. Would that be fair?
A good father wouldn't do that.
Why do you ask me questions with such obvious answers?

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by Phat, posted 10-22-2022 9:58 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 300 by Phat, posted 11-19-2022 12:33 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 251 of 331 (900161)
10-24-2022 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 250 by Phat
10-23-2022 12:56 PM


Re: Phat Attempts To Understand Ringo
Phat writes:
There are no "people" who made up God.
Of course there are. You're a shining example of that. Your God has only the qualities that you cherry-pick for Him.
Phat writes:
Next question?
We wouldn't need a "next question" if you'd deal with that one honestly.
Phat writes:
Trump has nothing to do with it.
Instead of just denying, why don't you THINK?
Phat writes:
I swear that in your world there are only liberals (proper people) conservatives(bad and evil people) and Canadians.(Contrarians)
1. I live in the second-most conservative Province in Canada. Almost everybody I know is conservative, so it wouldn't be practical for me to consider all of them "evil".
2. I am not a contrarian.
Phat writes:
... did it ever occur to you that God and God alone has a right to have a big head.
You can assume that everything that occurs to you has occurred to me. Most of what occurs to you occurred to me fifty years ago.
Phat writes:
... did it ever occur to you that God and God alone has a right to have a big head.
On the contrary, He has no "rights" at all. He doesn't need any if hHe's omnipotent.
Phat writes:
You piss-ant Johnny-come-lately's are as insignificant to Him as pond scum...
Now you're showing your true colors. Your (made-up) god doesn't want "communion" with us. We're scum.
Phat writes:
... excepting Jesus.
What do you mean by that?
Phat writes:
For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only son...
He loved us like pond scum? Make up your mind.
Phat writes:
So now God Himself is defined by ringo of Saskatchewan as another "goober"!
YOUR made-up god is barely a goober.
(And why do you keep calling me "ringo of Saskatchewan?")
Phat writes:
And you claim that having a big ego is a bad thing?
Having an exaggerated ego is a bad thing. Can you dispute that at all?
Phat writes:
Wait until the guys at the office get a load of this!
How do you expect them to react?
Phat writes:
Reducing God, the Creator of all seen and unseen to an anthropomorphic invention of primitive people is dishonest.
You're the one who has done that. And yes, it is blatantly dishonest to call him the "Creator of all seen and unseen" and then claim that he doesn't create evil. Evil is both seen and unseen.
The god that YOU have made up is certainly comparable to " an anthropomorphic invention of primitive people".
Phat writes:
I don't even think we humans are even wise enough to imagine the greatness of God...
It's true that YOUR imagination has produced a puny Trump of a god. You'd be better of sticking to what the bronze-age sheep herders said.
Phat writes:
... if not for Jesus.
Again, what do you mean by that?
Phat writes:
Well, if you and your liberal ilk...
Jesus was one of those "ilk", asshole.
Phat writes:
... were even worthy enough to be noble people of the book...
People of the book do what the book says.
Phat writes:
... you would never mandate compulsive giving beyond the tithe.
And I never have.
It was Jesus who made it a mandate.
Phat writes:
You would never try and throw God away.
What has that got to do with stimulus checks?
Phat writes:
You would never legislate nor attempt to legislate morality.
And I don't. It's your conservative ilk that do that. *cough* abortion laws *cough*
Phat writes:
You would never give people the right to self-identify, as if they even knew what was best for them (and others)
See Thomas Paine again. People know what's best for themselves more than some goober on a throne.
Phat writes:
You would humble yourselves,
You should buy a mirror, Mr. Holier-than-thou.
Phat writes:
... pray to the Creator of this great and grand universe, and allow Him to give you wisdom, insight, and purpose.
We can get more wisdom, insight and purpose from the universe itself than we will ever get from your silly ranting about your made-up god.
Phat writes:
Instead, like lemmings falling off of a cliff, you attempt to help all of the people and will end up helping none of them, once our economy collapses, we have rioting and looting in city streets, and the world sits at the brink of destruction.
The world IS on the brink of destruction but it has nothing to do with helping each other too much.
Honestly, you'd better hope your god ISN'T real because the way you spit on Jesus, you're gong to be struck down.
Phat writes:
Even then you won't pray. You will do the easy thing and blame the conservatives!
That's a fittingly stupid end to a thoroughly stupid rant.
Phat writes:
So the question could be better phrased. Why is God so petty as to need us?
ringo writes:
We've been asking you that for a long time. The answer seems to be that you've created your god in your own image.
First of all, who is this mystical *we*?
"We" is the people who have been asking you that question. There is nothing "mystical" or even mysterious about it.
Phat writes:
It sure as hell isn't "we the people".
And I didn't say it was. i said it was "we the people who asked the question."
Phat writes:
At best it is "we the peanut gallery!"
So you did know the answer all along. Why did you waste my time?
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
I note that YOU don't try to answer your own question.
I said it earlier and it is quite simple. God created us long before we were evolved enough to imagine Him.
The question was, "Why is God so petty as to need us?" You still haven't answered it.
Phat writes:
Though I self-identify as a moderate, I will represent the non-Trumpian Conservatives and would gladly knock on your door any day of the week.
Tell that to tthe conservatives who know where my door is.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 250 by Phat, posted 10-23-2022 12:56 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 260 by Phat, posted 11-03-2022 4:05 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 254 of 331 (900945)
11-02-2022 4:26 PM
Reply to: Message 253 by Phat
11-01-2022 7:21 PM


Re: Did God Become An Ant In Order To Understand Humanity?
Phat writes:
God had to become an ant to understand ants.
By that logic, He would have to become Canadian to understand Canadians.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by Phat, posted 11-01-2022 7:21 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 264 of 331 (901094)
11-04-2022 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 260 by Phat
11-03-2022 4:05 PM


Re: Phat Attempts To Understand Ringo
Phat writes:
And He is not petty. No human has the wisdom to make such a claim.
You're just parroting dogma.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by Phat, posted 11-03-2022 4:05 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 271 of 331 (901422)
11-09-2022 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 268 by Phat
11-08-2022 6:19 PM


Re: TOPIC SYNOPSIS I
Phat writes:
I depend on Him to give me wisdom that education and secular information alone cannot provide.
If He is doing that, why are you so wrong-headed about so many things?

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by Phat, posted 11-08-2022 6:19 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 272 by Phat, posted 11-09-2022 5:22 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 277 of 331 (901462)
11-10-2022 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 272 by Phat
11-09-2022 5:22 PM


Re: TOPIC SYNOPSIS I
Phat writes:
Because I'm human.
So are all of us. And there are many people on this forum who don't have your God whispering in their ears who are much better thinkers than you. Your God may actually be holding you back.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 272 by Phat, posted 11-09-2022 5:22 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 278 of 331 (901463)
11-10-2022 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 274 by Phat
11-09-2022 11:15 PM


Re: TOPIC SYNOPSIS I
Phat writes:
The only way I would "imagine"that is if I preferred that reality...which I don't.
You don't get the reality you "prefer". You only get the real one.
Phat writes:
The God I believe in can only be ignored by you because He allows you that freedom.
He allows us the freedom to not allow Him to hold us back? Nice.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 274 by Phat, posted 11-09-2022 11:15 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 280 by Phat, posted 11-12-2022 7:55 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 281 of 331 (901652)
11-13-2022 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 280 by Phat
11-12-2022 7:55 PM


Re: TOPIC SYNOPSIS I
Phat writes:
Keep in mind that anytime He would hold us back it would always be for our benefit.
You keep contradicting yourself. You claim that "free will" allows us to learn for ourselves - and now you claim that God holds us back from our free will so we don't have to learn for ourselves.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 280 by Phat, posted 11-12-2022 7:55 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 282 by Phat, posted 11-13-2022 3:57 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 283 of 331 (901718)
11-14-2022 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 282 by Phat
11-13-2022 3:57 PM


Re: TOPIC SYNOPSIS I
Phat writes:
You believe that Jesus was a mythically created historical character.
No, I don't believe He was a historical character. He was, and is, a fictional character. And that's not a belief. It's based on evidence (or lack of evidence).
Phat writes:
You don't believe that there is a spiritual conflict between good and evil, apart from in our minds.
I don't believe there is anything "spiritual", apart from our minds. Just like you don't believe there is anything leprechaunal, apart from our minds. And you don't believe there is anything Santa Clausal, apart from our minds.
Phat writes:
Having now asserted that humans already know the difference between good and bad behavior and actions...
No need to assert it. It's a conclusion based on evidence. And it isn't just humans; it's every social species.
Phat writes:
You think that free will means that we figure it all out for ourselves....
That's what free will means. What you seem to be talking about is "cheap will", where you always have a backup god to magically fix your bad "free" decisions. But we know that isn't true - because your bad decisions don't get fixed unless you fix them yourself.
Phat writes:
... assume that humans are basically good
Again, not an assumption, a conclusion. Social species, yada yada yada.
Phat writes:
and that no God is required, even if one existed.
You're a living demonstration of that. Your belief in your made-up god is a stumbling-block.
You said you were going to help us understand your convoluted logic but you didn't. Here's what you quoted:
quote:
You claim that "free will" allows us to learn for ourselves - and now you claim that God holds us back from our free will so we don't have to learn for ourselves.
Explain.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 282 by Phat, posted 11-13-2022 3:57 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 284 by Phat, posted 11-15-2022 2:02 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 285 of 331 (901865)
11-15-2022 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 284 by Phat
11-15-2022 2:02 AM


Re: TOPIC SYNOPSIS I
Phat writes:
Kindly explain the difference between a made-up God in 2022 versus a made-up God penned by any number of Biblical writers.
The difference is that the Biblical writers didn't know any better. You ought to.
The Biblical writers didn't have science to guide them. You ought to.
Phat writes:
You can't have it both ways.
You're the one who wants to have it both ways. You piggyback on the Bible when it suits you and deny it when it doesn't suit you.
I, on the other hand, am pretty consistent:
1. The Bible says what it says.
2. Much of what it says is wrong.
Phat writes:
If they made God up, how is it any different than me making Him up??
They made up a nasty God who punished them for stepping out of line. You make up a white-washed God who only asks you to do what you already want to do.
Phat writes:
apart from you preferring their version of God, expounded upon in scripture
I don't prefer ANY god.
And if YOU are going to ever mention scripture at all, you need to learn to accept it as it is.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 284 by Phat, posted 11-15-2022 2:02 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 286 by Phat, posted 11-16-2022 3:24 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 288 of 331 (902080)
11-17-2022 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 286 by Phat
11-16-2022 3:24 PM


Re: TOPIC SYNOPSIS I
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
The difference is that the Biblical writers didn't know any better. You ought to.
Such hubris! That humans *ought* to know better than to make up a God!
You should learn to read. It's a useful skill.
I didn't say anything like, "humans *ought* to know better than to make up a God". I said, "THE BIBLICAL WRITERS" didn't know any better. They didn't have science. They didn't know the real reasons for things like lightning, so they made up gods to explain them.
You ought to know better.
(And you should also learn what hubris means.)
Phat writes:
You will be proven wrong very shortly...likely within a year, when our entire system begins to unravel and the world is faced with everything that Matthew warned us against.
Blah blah blah.... What a load of rubbish.
Phat writes:
wars and rumors of wars
There have always been wars and rumors of wars. I don't have time to list the wars we've had in my own lifetime.
The difference is that now we try to stop them.
Phat writes:
"Science" is not some shamanistic ancient ritual to consult in order to form cognizant philosophical worldviews.
That's what I'm telling you. Science is NOT shamanistic, like your religion, and it SHOULD be consulted in order to form cognizant philosophical worldviews. Ever hear of a little problem called "global climate change" that science has been trying to warn us about?
Phat writes:
Rather, the ultra-liberals will pine for a world of universal love, acceptance, and inclusiveness which will end up being a phony counterfeit to the original ideal expressed through Jesus Christ.
Your thought patterns are so bizarre that it's hard to believe what I'm reading. Jesus Christ DID pine for a world of universal love, acceptance, and inclusiveness. yet, you spit on Him and yearn for an ultra-Trump world of hate and lies. Don't walk around barefoot if you don't want the homeless people you step on to squish up between your toes.
Phat writes:
Again, ringo thinks that rational critically thinking secular minds have it right.
So you prefer irrational, uncrtical, unthinking minds?
Phat writes:
Which you don't.
And yet, you have never been able to back up that empty assertion.
Phat writes:
Without acceptance of and obedience to Jesus, you will fail...
And yet, you have never been able to back up that empty assertion.
Phat writes:
... along with the antichrist spirit of the secular age.
The antichrist spirit is yours. You are the one who denies Jesus.
Phat writes:
Why on earth would any people make up a nasty God?
It doesn't matter "why". They DID. Read the Old Testament.
Phat writes:
It was the people themselves who were nasty...
That's what the shamans claimed. The people were nasty and the nasty god would punish them if they didn't keep the shamans supplied with barbecued oxen.
Phat writes:
... into idol worship, temple prostitution sex (as a tantric spirituality), and incest.
Horrors! Some of them might even have been Mexicans!
I have asked you before what is so terrible about any of those things and you didn't answer. Answer now.
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
You make up a white-washed God who only asks you to do what you already want to do.
Nonsense. I worship a God who is personal and approachable...
You're just repeating what I said. How is it nonsense when i say it?
Phat writes:
... not some static character in an ancient book!
You keep missing the point. The character in the book is the only evidence we have that Jesus ever existed. You're throwing out the only evidence we have and making up a a white-washed God who only asks you to do what you already want to do.
Phat writes:
a white-washed God who only asks you to do what you already want to do.
Again, you should learn to read. It's a useful skill.
I said, "IF you are going to ever mention scripture at all, you need to learn to accept it as it is." You can't quote the parts you like and spit on the parts you don't like. You will not get away with that. Your dishonesty will be exposed.
Phat writes:
It is you who reject God and twist the meanings of an ancient book to line up with your socialist human ideal.
1. I do not reject God. I reject YOUR perverted theology. If there was a God, I would be His best buddy.
2. I do not "twist" anything. i quote exactly what the Bible says. I try to UNtwist the mangling that your perverted theology does.
3. You keep forgetting that socialism is a very good thing: schools, roads, etc. Don't get all of your ideas from Trump.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by Phat, posted 11-16-2022 3:24 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 289 by Phat, posted 11-18-2022 9:19 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 291 of 331 (902153)
11-18-2022 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 289 by Phat
11-18-2022 9:19 AM


Re: A word about social programs
Phat writes:
Its not enough that you personally chose not to believe...
I didn't "choose" not to believe any more than you chose not to believe in leprechauns. We both don't believe because there is no evidence. The only difference is that you have a double standard for your made-up god.
Phat writes:
... in an ancient messenger as relevant...
It isn't just ancient messengers that are irrelevant. ALL messengers are irrelevant. It's the message that matters - and you know that. You don't throw out your bills and worship the envelopes. But you have a double standard for your made-up god.
Phat writes:
... but only in His message which resonated with your modern liberalism.
And why wouldn't ancient liberalism resonate with modern liberalism? Has love changed? Have neighbors changed?
Phat writes:
Im not pro Trump, despite ringos attempts to link me with and label me as a Trump.
I keep asking you and you never answer: If you don't like Trump, why do you agree with him about everything? Why do you use the same insults as he does? Answer the question.
Phat writes:
I am also not a liberal for several reasons.
Ignorance? Or hate?
Phat writes:
The liberals seem to think that they are entitled to spend whatever is necessary to help everyone...
Not "entitled". Required. By human decency.
Phat writes:
...even though not everyone will end up paying it back.
Where did Jesus say, "Lend to thy neighbor - but make damn sure he pays you back, even if his children die because of it"?
Of course, it DOES get paid back. People on welfare shop at your store, don't they? The people we help don't stash all of their money away in the Cayman Islands. They spend it locally. If you'e worried about money going away and never coming back, look to the rich tax evaders (like Trump, who thinks it's "smart" to avoid taxes).
Phat writes:
You people do not understand the disciplined reality of money in general.
And you don't understand the circulation of money, As the Preacher said, "Cast your bread upon the waters, for you will find it after many days." (Ecclesiastes 11:1)
Phat writes:
You seem to think that if the majority can agree to keep using "it" as if it is limitless...
It IS limitless. It circulates - i.e. it moves in a circle. You give spare change to a homeless guy and he spends it on drugs and the drug dealer spends it in your store to feed his children. It's only the rich conservatives who limit it by hiding it in the Cayman Islands and stopping the circulation.
Phat writes:
... we all ought to want to help pay the bill.
You need to stop thinking of it as a "bill".
Phat writes:
The government will never find all of my money, nor will they get their hands on any of it...
So you're a tax evader, like Trump.
Phat writes:
I will not be sucked into an inclusive lovey dovey agenda.
So you'll never be a real Christian.
Phat writes:
Yes, I owe the ancient messenger all that I have. I'm just explaining to you that He is NOT the same as the government.
You don't need to mansplain that to me. I have told you many, many, many times that it is NOT about the government at all.
You have made up a convenient, self-serving god that you never have to give anything to, even if you claim to owe everything to him.
Phat writes:
The problem with you people is that when you are in power...
I have never been in power.
Phat writes:
... everyone's money and taxes become yours to do what you want with.
To do what needs to be done.
Phat writes:
There will be a revolt, however. Even now, wealthy families are buying gold and moving it to offshore vaults. They see what's coming and they want nothing to do with your Green New Bill.
I don't have a "Green New Bill" or know what one is.
And FYI, those wealthy families are robbing YOU just like they're robbing the poor.
Phat writes:
What is the offshore system?
Theft.
Are you actually suggesting that hiding money from creditors is a good thing?
Did you read your own quote?
quote:
... some clients have used offshore services in ways that are not legal.
Do you really think that's a good thing?
Phat writes:
I might add that I would never do anything illegal...
But you support the rich doing it.
Phat writes:
I simply protest a digital currency system where every bit of money and financial transactions can be traced by the government.
Your hatred of the government is noted. Maybe you have never heard the phrase, "We, the people...."
It's sad. The US once showed such promise - but it's being taken over by a bunch of lying, thieving conservative assholes. And like the poor whites who fought to conserve slavery, you're on their side.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 289 by Phat, posted 11-18-2022 9:19 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 305 by Phat, posted 11-19-2022 3:27 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 295 of 331 (902209)
11-19-2022 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 293 by Phat
11-19-2022 5:37 AM


Re: Two Sides To Every Argument
Phat writes:
I found this: Dan Barkers "deconversion"
I glanced at it. It seems like typical apologetics and philosophical mumbo-jumbo - with relatively little reference to Dan Barker.
Phat writes:
The response was enlightening and shows me that two sides to every story exist..
The apologetic side has always been there. It never changes and it doesn't address the rebuttals.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 293 by Phat, posted 11-19-2022 5:37 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 296 by Phat, posted 11-19-2022 11:57 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 298 of 331 (902214)
11-19-2022 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 296 by Phat
11-19-2022 11:57 AM


Re: Two Sides To Every Argument
Phat writes:
If we lived in the same town, we likely would end up arguing until we couldn't stand each other...
You wouldn't be able to run away like you do here.
Phat writes:
he loves to defend his own deconversion...
When have I ever defended my "deconversion"?
Phat writes:
... and hint that I'm less of an altruistic Christian....
It's not a "hint". You are not an altruistic Christian by any stretch of the imagination. You are openly anti-Christian.
Phat writes:
... than he is an empathetic nonbeliever.
I am not an "emphatic non-believer". I drifted away from belief. It was not traumatic for me but I was definitely reluctant. I could go back easily, if there was anything to it.
Phat writes:
You want to hear deconversion stories.
I couldn't care less about deconversion stories.
Phat writes:
It reinforces your own decisions to drop the belief.
It wasn't a decision. It was just a gradual realization that I was free of the superstition.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 296 by Phat, posted 11-19-2022 11:57 AM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 301 by Theodoric, posted 11-19-2022 12:48 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
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