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Author
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Topic: Choosing a faith
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PaulK
Member Posts: 17825 Joined: 01-10-2003 Member Rating: 2.2
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Message 1201 of 3694 (900703)
10-30-2022 3:28 PM
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Reply to: Message 1192 by Phat
10-30-2022 3:01 PM
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Re: What does God want of Us
quote:
Well if so, I would say that there were several things that Jesus did not know. He did not know when the end would come, for example.
Since Jesus is supposedly answering the question of when the Temple will be destroyed I would expect him to provide an answer or at least admit that he had no idea. Now, I say that the sequence of events he narrates is intended to be an answer - and the destruction comes at the end. Without that, the answer is something of an evasion. So it is not a question of “precisely when” - we get no “precisely when” for any of the events. It is “how does this answer the question?”. I say it does, GDR says it doesn’t (probably because he doesn’t like the answer).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1192 by Phat, posted 10-30-2022 3:01 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 1202 of 3694 (900704)
10-30-2022 3:28 PM
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Reply to: Message 1197 by PaulK
10-30-2022 3:22 PM
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Re: Michael
I'll try and be more disciplined and think before I speak. My apologies.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1197 by PaulK, posted 10-30-2022 3:22 PM | | PaulK has not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 1203 of 3694 (900705)
10-30-2022 3:32 PM
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Reply to: Message 1193 by ringo
10-30-2022 3:01 PM
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Re: Word Up
ringo writes: Social species were around long before humans.
So were Sequoia trees. Unless you can find the message in the tree rings, I would assert that the messenger created the trees indirectly.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1193 by ringo, posted 10-30-2022 3:01 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1204 by ringo, posted 10-30-2022 3:45 PM | | Phat has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 1204 of 3694 (900708)
10-30-2022 3:45 PM
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Reply to: Message 1203 by Phat
10-30-2022 3:32 PM
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Re: Word Up
Phat writes: Unless you can find the message in the tree rings, I would assert that the messenger created the trees indirectly.
1. An assertion is not an argument. 2. I was simply pointing out that your no-speaking-humans point doesn't hold any water. 3. John speaks about words. The challenge remains: Find ANYWHERE else in the Bible that even REMOTELY suggests that "the word' was Jesus. Here, I did your homework for you again:
quote:
"The word which Jesus had said" Joh 2:22 "many more believed because of his own word" Joh 4:41 "the word that Jesus had spoken" Joh 4:50 "He that heareth my word and believeth on him that sent me" Joh 5:24 "ye have not his word abiding in you" Joh 5:38 "If ye continue in my word" Joh 8:31 "my word hath no place in you." Joh 8:37 "ye cannot hear my word." Joh 8:43 "unto whom the word of God came" Joh 10:35 "the word that I have spoken" Joh 12:48 "the word which ye hear is not mine" Joh 14:24 "the word which I have spoken unto you" Joh 15:3 "the word that I said unto you" Joh 15:20 "that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law" Joh15:25 "they have kept thy word" Joh 17:6 (Jesus praying) "I have given them thy word" Joh 17:14 "thy word is truth" Joh 17:17 "which shall believe on me through their word" Joh 17:20 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "word of Jesus" Mat 26:75 "Jesus heard the word" Mar 5:36 "the word that Jesus said" Mar 14:72 "Jesus answered him saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God." Mar 4:4 "sat at Jesus' feet, and heard his word" Luke 10:39 "Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word" Luke 24:19 "the word which Jesus had said" Joh 2:22 "the word that Jesus had spoken" Joh 4:50 "said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word" Joh 8:31 "word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus" Act 10:36 "the word of the Lord Jesus" Act 19:10 "whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus" Col 3:17 "the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ" Rev 1:2 "for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ." Rev 1:9 "for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God" Rev 20:4
Word means word.
Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1203 by Phat, posted 10-30-2022 3:32 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1207 by Phat, posted 10-31-2022 11:35 AM | | ringo has replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.8
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Message 1205 of 3694 (900709)
10-30-2022 3:46 PM
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Reply to: Message 1199 by Phat
10-30-2022 3:27 PM
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Re: Untangling a 2000 year old myth
Phat writes: We are talking about faith. Once your money (or half of it at any rate) evaporates, you will suffer a crisis of faith. We're talking about religious faith. If you're going to lose your faith if you lose some of your money, you do not have a faith. But then we've already established that you're not interested in following the teachings of your professed faith. Who do you think you're fooling Phat? It's not us and it's not your god? Could it be yourself?
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1199 by Phat, posted 10-30-2022 3:27 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1208 by Phat, posted 10-31-2022 11:41 AM | | Tangle has not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9146 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.3
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Message 1206 of 3694 (900711)
10-30-2022 4:22 PM
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Reply to: Message 1185 by Phat
10-30-2022 2:33 PM
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Read the post I was replying to
It is then self-evident.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1185 by Phat, posted 10-30-2022 2:33 PM | | Phat has not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 1207 of 3694 (900733)
10-31-2022 11:35 AM
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Reply to: Message 1204 by ringo
10-30-2022 3:45 PM
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Re: Word Up
Your word search was thorough except that it only covered the New Testament. Lets examine the instances of the word in its original Hebrew and peruse the Old Testament.
Vines writes: TO SPEAK dabar OT:1696, "to speak, say." This verb occurs in all periods of Hebrew, in Phoenician (starting from around 900 BC), and in imperial Aramaic (starting from about 500 BC). In Old Testament Hebrew it occurs about 1,125 times. This verb focuses not only on the content of spoken verbal communication but also and especially on the time and circumstances of what is said. Unlike `amar, "to say," dabar often appears without any specification of what was communicated. Those who "speak" are primarily persons (God or men) or organs of speech. In Gen 8:15 (the first occurrence of this verb) God "spoke" to Noah, while in Gen 18:5 one of the three men "spoke" to Abraham. Exceptions to this generalization occur, for example in Job 32:7, where Elihu personifies "days" (a person's age) as that which has the right "to speak" first. In 2 Sam 23:2 David says that the Spirit of the Lord "spoke" to him; contrary to many (especially liberal) scholars, this is probably a reference to the Holy Spirit (cf. NASB). Among the special meanings of this verb are "to say" Dan 9:21, "to command" 2 Kings 1:9, "to promise" Deut 6:3, "to commission" Ex 1:17, "to announce" Jer 36:31, "to order or command" Deut 1:14, and "to utter a song" Judg 5:12. Such secondary meanings are, however, quite infrequent. (from Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words, Copyright (c)1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers) Note the underlined. Those pesky liberal scholars were attempting to chip away at Biblical inerrancy even back then. (whenever Vines was written) I agree with the assessment that the Holy Spirit was the inner unction...the spoken word from God, and that Jesus, as God's character, could thus be correctly known and accepted as the Word become Flesh. Ergo, Jesus was in the beginning (before humans had evolved) and was made man (Nicene Creed) at a certain point in eternity birthed in time. The stories say that Wise Men came from afar guided only by a star. If Jesus was simply another human birthed by natural means, why do the stories suggest all of the attention? The only counterargument that most scholars (likely liberal  ) will have is that the entire story was made up simply and effectively to control the masses. Except that it is the villain in the stories, Satan, who is really controlling and manipulating the masses.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1204 by ringo, posted 10-30-2022 3:45 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1209 by ringo, posted 10-31-2022 11:51 AM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 1208 of 3694 (900734)
10-31-2022 11:41 AM
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Reply to: Message 1205 by Tangle
10-30-2022 3:46 PM
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Re: Untangling a 2000 year old myth
tangle writes: We're talking about religious faith. If you're going to lose your faith if you lose some of your money, you do not have a faith. But then we've already established that you're not interested in following the teachings of your professed faith. You correctly established my cognitive dissonance regarding my beliefs and my actions, though in my defense my blood sugars were too high back then and my thinking and reasoning were diminished. I may still be a bit of a loon to you, but I am striving to be more consistent and predictable of a loon.
Who do you think you're fooling Phat? It's not us and it's not your god? Could it be yourself? Not sure I follow. What specifically am I fooling myself about?
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1205 by Tangle, posted 10-30-2022 3:46 PM | | Tangle has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 1209 of 3694 (900737)
10-31-2022 11:51 AM
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Reply to: Message 1207 by Phat
10-31-2022 11:35 AM
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Re: Word Up
Phat writes: Your word search was thorough except that it only covered the New Testament.
I only covered the New testament because I was searching for the Greek word logos. There may, in fact, be instances where logos was translated as something other than "word".
Phat writes: Lets examine the instances of the word in its original Hebrew and peruse the Old Testament.
I don't see why a Hebrew word translated as "word" should effect the translation of a Greek word.
Note the underlined.
Yes, the underlined, and everything else you quoted, refers to actual words.
Phat writes: Those pesky liberal scholars were attempting to chip away at Biblical inerrancy even back then.
Good for them. the Bible is NOT inerrant. And you really need to stop maligning liberals.
Phat writes: ... and that Jesus, as God's character, could thus be correctly known and accepted as the Word become Flesh.
Substitute "message" for "word". Jesus was the message become flesh; He was the personification of the message. He was NOT, the message. So John 1:1 does NOT say that Jesus was around since the beginning.
Phat writes: Ergo, Jesus was in the beginning (before humans had evolved) and was made man (Nicene Creed) at a certain point in eternity birthed in time.
Your "ergo" doesn't work. Jesus was an example of the message; He was NOT the message itself. Ergo, John 1:1 does NOT say that He was around since the beginning.
Phat writes: If Jesus was simply another human birthed by natural means, why do the stories suggest all of the attention?
It's made up. It didn't happen. Why do commercials claim that their product is the greatest thing ever? Notice that their competitors claim that THEIR product is the greatest thing ever.
Phat writes: Except that it is the villain in the stories, Satan, who is really controlling and manipulating the masses.
But Satan is NOT the villain of the stories (see Job.) That's just another lie that you've been sold.
Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1207 by Phat, posted 10-31-2022 11:35 AM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 1210 of 3694 (900744)
10-31-2022 12:12 PM
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Reply to: Message 1152 by ringo
10-28-2022 12:10 PM
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Re: What does God want of Us
ringo, replying to GDR writes: Jesus doesn't seem to agree with you. He seems to be keeping score.
GDR writes: If you see that in there then tell me how many sheep and how many goats He was talking about.
Piggybacking this idea off of the scripture, Matthew 22:1-14 writes: Matt 22:1-14 22:1 Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying: 2 "The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son. 3 He sent his servants to those who had been invited to the banquet to tell them to come, but they refused to come. 4 "Then he sent some more servants and said, 'Tell those who have been invited that I have prepared my dinner: My oxen and fattened cattle have been butchered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.' 5 "But they paid no attention and went off-one to his field, another to his business. 6 The rest seized his servants, mistreated them and killed them. 7 The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those murderers and burned their city. 8 "Then he said to his servants, 'The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited did not deserve to come. 9 Go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.' 10 So the servants went out into the streets and gathered all the people they could find, both good and bad, and the wedding hall was filled with guests. 11 "But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes. 12'Friend,' he asked, 'how did you get in here without wedding clothes?' The man was speechless. 13 "Then the king told the attendants, 'Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.' 14 "For many are invited, but few are chosen." Many could refer to most, or it could refer to ALL. All are called. ALL are invited. Few are chosen. Perhaps very few. Why? Because few choose to give it all up and follow the master. (yes, I finally agreed with you, Canuck! Now....on to our other argument:
ringo writes: Good for them. the Bible is NOT inerrant. The messenger is inerrent and His message is inerrant (pure and unadulterated)
ringo writes: Jesus was an example of the message; He was NOT the message itself. Ergo, John 1:1 does NOT say that He was around since the beginning. Church tradition says He was around since the beginning. One could argue that only GOD and the Holy Spirit were around since the beginning, but even then Jesus was likely the only human who embodied it (the Spirit) perfectly. The contenders can begin lining up at my left, along with any goats who need to repent before they die.
And you really need to stop maligning liberals. I poke at them because it annoys them They really need to see the other side of the arguments and quit thinking their way is the best way possible. As for your assertion that it's all fiction? I agree with all of the beliefs except one. If you have any better contenders than Jesus, bring them up for examination.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1152 by ringo, posted 10-28-2022 12:10 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1211 by ringo, posted 10-31-2022 12:46 PM | | Phat has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 1211 of 3694 (900748)
10-31-2022 12:46 PM
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Reply to: Message 1210 by Phat
10-31-2022 12:12 PM
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Re: What does God want of Us
Phat writes: Matthew 22:1-14
Not one of the better parables. The "king" made bad choices in whom he invited. Then he behaved childishly toward the man who wasn't wearing wedding clothes. (Considering that the guests were rounded up from the street corners, it's surprising that ANY of them were in wedding clothes.) That "king" needed a good spanking. And the punchline, "For many are invited, but few are chosen," has little or nothing to do with the story.
Phat writes: ringo writes: the Bible is NOT inerrant.
The messenger is inerrent and His message is inerrant (pure and unadulterated)
Nope. You're making that up.
Phat writes: Church tradition says He was around since the beginning.
With church tradition and two dollars, you can buy a cup of coffee.
Phat writes: One could argue that only GOD and the Holy Spirit were around since the beginning, but even then Jesus was likely the only human who embodied it (the Spirit) perfectly.
Which has nothing to do with Him being around from the beginning.
Phat writes: ringo writes: And you really need to stop maligning liberals.
I poke at them because it annoys them
No it doesn't. It just demonstrates that you are neither rational nor Christian.
Phat writes: They really need to see the other side of the arguments and quit thinking their way is the best way possible.
Look in the mirror. You're the one who refuses to ever change his mind.
Phat writes: As for your assertion that it's all fiction?
I have never made any such assertion.
Phat writes: If you have any better contenders than Jesus, bring them up for examination.
Contenders for what?
Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1210 by Phat, posted 10-31-2022 12:12 PM | | Phat has replied |
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GDR
Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: 05-22-2005 Member Rating: 2.1
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Message 1212 of 3694 (900764)
10-31-2022 1:35 PM
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Reply to: Message 1175 by Admin
10-30-2022 8:31 AM
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Re: What does God want of Us
Admin writes: Can you describe what you do using Word that results in strange symbols? I wasn't able to duplicate the problem, e.g., see Message 37.
Particularly on the longer posts I find it difficult to only use the EvC site. What I do then is to use my microsoft word program and copy and paste from the site and then reply to a specific point in word and then copy and past the final word document back to EvC. Hope that helps.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1175 by Admin, posted 10-30-2022 8:31 AM | | Admin has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1241 by Admin, posted 11-01-2022 5:51 PM | | GDR has replied |
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GDR
Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: 05-22-2005 Member Rating: 2.1
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Message 1213 of 3694 (900766)
10-31-2022 1:57 PM
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Reply to: Message 1130 by Percy
10-27-2022 8:17 AM
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Re: What does God want of Us
Percy writes: But I think we all remain curious about how you explain your *something* that can't be investigated scientifically. It sounds like you're resorting to stuff like visions that appear to everyone present except the video camera, things that are apparent to people (who can tell us about these things) but that remain invisible in all ways to all manner of scientific instruments. Not really. For example if we look at the rise of empathy and altruism, or even consciousness, you and others claim scientific evidence. Yes, you can observe it happening but that still doesn't tell why it happened. That said, let's assume that science can actually come up with how consciousness evolved in the same manner that science has demonstrated physical evolution to be a reality. That still doesn't give an explanation of what the impetus was for its evolution. For example I believe I mentioned Chris Barrigar earlier in this thread. Here is a review of his book "Freedom All the Way Up' that outlines briefly his belief.
quote:
Freedom All The Way Up proposes four intertwined elements that make up the meaning of life—self-worth, purpose, identity, and hope. Materialism (atheism) claims the universe has no meaning, so there is no larger purposeful story into which we can place ourselves—we are left on our own to construct meaning for our lives. Barrigar argues, though, that the universe possesses God’s meaning and purpose—to provide the space and conditions by which to bring about the existence of agape-capable beings in agape-loving relationships with God and with others. In effect, the universe is a great ‘freedom system’ designed by God with freedom built in ‘all the way up’, from the Big Bang to the emergence of big brains and free will. Barrigar describes the emergence of this system through his novel agape/probability account of God’s design for the universe, which integrates such disciplines as quantum physics, statistical mechanics, probability theory, evolutionary psychology, neuroscience, and game theory. This system sets up the conditions for a fundamental choice between autonomous freedom, which focuses principally on self, and agapic freedom, which focuses principally on God and on others. Materialism chooses autonomous freedom, but thereby introduces nihilism into each of the elements of meaning. In turns out that nihilism is a much greater problem for Materialism than suffering is for Theism. In contrast, agapic freedom infuses self-worth, purpose, identity, and hope with God’s agape-love, dispelling Materialism’s inherent nihilism. Freedom All The Way Up provides a dramatic new proposal for God and the meaning of life in our scientific and humanist age.
Percy writes: God as a meme. I think you've got it. I think we have a very different idea of what the means. 
He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1130 by Percy, posted 10-27-2022 8:17 AM | | Percy has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1371 by Percy, posted 11-18-2022 11:09 AM | | GDR has not replied |
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GDR
Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: 05-22-2005 Member Rating: 2.1
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Message 1214 of 3694 (900768)
10-31-2022 2:10 PM
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Reply to: Message 1136 by Percy
10-27-2022 11:35 AM
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Re: What does God want of Us
GDR writes: There can be a good argument made that acts of selfless love by an atheist are a purer form of worship, or service, to God than what is done by a theist. Percy writes: Put another way, an atheist's motivation to do good is unlikely to be adulterated by delusions of supernatural rewards. That was pretty much my point. However the key is selflessness so it can't be for some form of reward in the next life for the theist, or to be highly thought of by others for the atheist.
He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1136 by Percy, posted 10-27-2022 11:35 AM | | Percy has seen this message but not replied |
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GDR
Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: 05-22-2005 Member Rating: 2.1
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Message 1215 of 3694 (900772)
10-31-2022 2:18 PM
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Reply to: Message 1145 by PaulK
10-27-2022 4:49 PM
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Re: What does God want of Us
PaulK writes: the Messianic stuff is all postponed until the Second Coming. I'm sure curious as to why you would make that claim The messianic movement was very much part of that era. It was hoped that a messiah, (a man anointed by Yahweh would lead them in battle against the Roman with the sword. Jesus argued that the battle was against the evil behind the Romans and that is fought with love and kindness. Examples are to "turn the other cheek", "Go the extra mile and particularly the call to "love your enemy".
He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1145 by PaulK, posted 10-27-2022 4:49 PM | | PaulK has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1219 by PaulK, posted 10-31-2022 2:52 PM | | GDR has replied |
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