Rebuttal To Creationists - "Since We Can't Directly Observe Evolution..."

Kleinman:

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You are a failure at your job

Tanypteryx:

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I suppose that's possible, but none of that stuff is in my job description. I will be sure to tell my clients that some creationist says I'm a failure, but I'm keeping my microscope since I paid for it with my own money.

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You are a mathematically incompetent ignorant twit who knows nothing about the physics and mathematics of biological evolution and that includes the evolution of antimicrobial drug resistance. Your stupidity and that of other biologists that think like you makes the job for physicians more difficult. So do something you are good at like collecting bugs. You are certainly useless when it comes to explaining biological evolution.

Kleinman:

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And you still haven't told us if you have never done evil.

AZPaul3:

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You were trying to dodge a question.

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You don't have to answer that one, we already know the answer. Are you really sure that your day of judgment is not going to come?

AZPaul3:

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I didn't know you could fail so miserably in retirement. Gotta pick your game up there, my man!

Tanypteryx:

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yeah, I know...I busted a gut laughing at the bacteria guy.

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Enjoy your laugh at the expense of people dying of drug-resistant infections and failed cancer treatments. Stupid and mean, you are useless.

You seem to be failing at that pretty spectacularly.

Kleinman:

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You are certainly useless when it comes to explaining biological evolution.

Tanypteryx:

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You seem to be failing at that pretty spectacularly.

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How would you know? You are too stupid to understand high school-level math. Go run after bugs, that's what you are good at.

I find lots of scientists disagreeing with you and so far haven't run across any that agree with you that your model is an accurate description of the evolution of modern, complex, multicellular, sexually reproducing species. If you were succeeding at explaining it there should be 1000s of scientists that you have convinced. They should be everywhere. Where are they? What, are you 10 years old?Well, you know biologists AND atheists are just so bad at creationist math. Running is not a successful strategy, and I'm not very interested in bugs (Hemiptera) except for stinkbugs, but that is really just because I am really interested in microscopic stinkbug egg parasitoid wasps in the genus Trissolcus (Hymenoptera) as biocontrols for invasive stinkbug species. Parasitoid wasps may be the only thing that can effectively control the invasive exotic insect pests that are being accidentally introduced globally. Almost all of them are not in situations where spraying is a useful control tool. The key is learning everything we can about the life histories of each parasitoid species once we identify the species associated with the pest species in their native habitat. This branch of entomology is relatively new, but it's starting to look like most species of insects have multiple species of parasitoids that prey on them often specializing in specific life stages. Global agricultural systems are under threat from exotics and the evidence is clear that spraying kills far too many beneficial natives while being ineffective against the pests. The number of researchers being funded for this work is dwindling every year.

Oh I'm not saying it's limited to the Catholic church, Mr Divert-and-Hope-They'll-Go-Away. What I am saying is that for decades the Catholic church lied and covered up the vast numbers of paedophile priests who were sexually abusing children in their churches. They moved the priests to other churches where they set out to abuse thousands more children just to lie and protect the Catholic church's reputation. That reputation was worth more to them than continuing to subject innocent children to the vile horror of paedophilia.So they lied. And lied. And lied again for decades. Despite the Bible's rather clear guidance.on the topic: I detest paedophiles (though, just to correct you, I have been fortunate enough not to have been subjected to it). But I detest just as much a supposedly Christian church which lies in order to protect its reputation, when the cost of those lies is the continued subjection of hundreds of thousands of innocent children to a vile and disgusting crime.

Day of judgement? Right.When is that? You got the math and physics on that? It's not the same bad math you use on genetics, is it?

Kleinman:

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How would you know?

Tanypteryx:

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I find lots of scientists disagreeing with you and so far haven't run across any that agree with you that your model is an accurate description of the evolution of modern, complex, multicellular, sexually reproducing species. If you were succeeding at explaining it there should be 1000s of scientists that you have convinced. They should be everywhere. Where are they?

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Tany, you are too lazy to do your own research. We all saw that with your claims about ERVs. Do you really believe that 8% of the human genome is viral DNA? You heard someone claim that ERVs show that humans and chimps are related and you swallowed that one hook, line, and sinker. And why don't you check out the math I've presented and see whether it is an accurate representation of the biological evolution demonstrated in the Kishony and Lenski experiments? It will take some effort on your part because you will have to familiarize yourself with probability theory but that's what you need to understand stochastic processes such as descent with modification and recombination. Once you see that the math is correct for those experiments, then study and examine how ploidy, meiosis, sexual reproduction, and recombination affect this math. The Desai experiment is the next step. This experiment is analogous to Darwin's Finches, with descent with modification, biological competition, and recombination occurring simultaneously. Taq hasn't gotten a handle on this yet but he is getting there. You haven't even made it to the ballpark. I think you are too lazy to come up to speed on the physics and mathematics of biological evolution. I've met very few biologists that have. If biologists had this understanding, why would the Desai team be saying the following in their paper published in 2021?
Phenotypic and molecular evolution across 10,000 generations in laboratory budding yeast (with asexual reproduction and sexual reproduction) populations

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As human health is increasingly threatened by emerging pathogens, multidrug-resistant infections, and therapy-evading cancer cells, our understanding of the dynamics and predictability of evolution is of growing importance. Yet predicting the course of evolution is difficult, since it is driven by a complex combination of deterministic and stochastic forces. On the one hand, beneficial mutations that establish within a population often rise to fixation at rates nearly perfectly predicted by decades-old theory. On the other hand, random forces such as mutation, genetic drift, and recombination ensure an enduring role for chance and contingency. To understand evolution, we must appreciate the interactions between these deterministic and stochastic components.

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When I started this discussion, I asked if any of the posters understood what were the physical processes that Darwin was describing. Most of the posters had no idea. Only Percy was anywhere close. And none of the posters could correctly describe which laws of physics (thermodynamics) governed these processes. Biologists aren't trained in doing this kind of analysis, engineers are. Engineers are not exposed to these biological experiments in their studies. Biologists may not agree with my analysis at this time, but they will at some point if they want to have a correct understanding of the physics and mathematics of biological evolution. Why can I say this? I can say this because I have training and experience in solving complex thermodynamics problems and biological evolution is just one more thermodynamics problem.

Kleinman:

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You are too stupid to understand high school-level math.

Tanypteryx:

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What, are you 10 years old?
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Well, you know biologists AND atheists are just so bad at creationist math.​

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You are just being stupid when you say this. Probability theory and other areas of mathematics are the same for biologists, atheists, and creationists. The problem is that biologists don't get the same type of rigorous training in mathematics as do engineers. Engineering training starts with learning how to derive equations from the fundamental laws of physics. Most of the mathematics I see coming from biologists is curve fitting and plugging numbers into equations that they don't understand. Until biologists learn how to derive the equations based on the physical laws that govern biological evolutionary processes, they will be writing the same paragraph in their papers that Desai wrote above 50 years from now.

Kleinman:

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Go run after bugs, that's what you are good at.

Tanypteryx:

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Running is not a successful strategy, and I'm not very interested in bugs (Hemiptera) except for stinkbugs, but that is really just because I am really interested in microscopic stinkbug egg parasitoid wasps in the genus Trissolcus (Hymenoptera) as biocontrols for invasive stinkbug species. Parasitoid wasps may be the only thing that can effectively control the invasive exotic insect pests that are being accidentally introduced globally. Almost all of them are not in situations where spraying is a useful control tool. The key is learning everything we can about the life histories of each parasitoid species once we identify the species associated with the pest species in their native habitat. This branch of entomology is relatively new, but it's starting to look like most species of insects have multiple species of parasitoids that prey on them often specializing in specific life stages. Global agricultural systems are under threat from exotics and the evidence is clear that spraying kills far too many beneficial natives while being ineffective against the pests. The number of researchers being funded for this work is dwindling every year.

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Parasitoid wasps may be useful in helping control invasive insect pests but you are making a mistake if that is all that will be needed. Don't you think that these invasive insect pests will be evolving against that parasitoid wasps? When you are talking about replicators such as insects that can achieve huge populations and rapid recovery, there will be a high probability that resistant variants are going to appear in the population. It's going to require two or possibly three simultaneous selection pressures to deal with this problem. You really need to learn something about the physics and mathematics of biological evolution.

Kleinman:

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You are mistaken if you think this great evil is limited to the Catholic Church.

vimesey:

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Oh I'm not saying it's limited to the Catholic church, Mr Divert-and-Hope-They'll-Go-Away. What I am saying is that for decades the Catholic church lied and covered up the vast numbers of paedophile priests who were sexually abusing children in their churches. They moved the priests to other churches where they set out to abuse thousands more children just to lie and protect the Catholic church's reputation.
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That reputation was worth more to them than continuing to subject innocent children to the vile horror of paedophilia.
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So they lied. And lied. And lied again for decades. Despite the Bible's rather clear guidance.on the topic:

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vimesey, I'm not trying to make you go away. I'm in complete agreement with you on this point. This is a shameful thing that has occurred in the Catholic Church and I'm sure other churches as well (and you might as well include secular school systems, families, youth sports teams, etc., anywhere adults have power over children). Paul in his letters to the Corinthians admonished them for their sexual immorality. Repentance is needed, not just in the Catholic Church but our entire society and world. Lying and covering up is not a solution. It only makes things worse. This is heartbreaking what is happening to children.

The Bible:

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The LORD detests lying lips, but he delights in people who are trustworthy. (Proverbs 12:22)

vimesey:

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I detest paedophiles (though, just to correct you, I have been fortunate enough not to have been subjected to it). But I detest just as much a supposedly Christian church which lies in order to protect its reputation, when the cost of those lies is the continued subjection of hundreds of thousands of innocent children to a vile and disgusting crime.

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I'm glad that you have never suffered such a toxic event. Consider what the secular world is doing now, trying to normalize pedophilia. Here's an example:
North American Man/Boy Love Association - Wikipedia Organizations like this exist all over the world. AZPaul3 thinks that it is propaganda that the leaders in the American educational system are trying to groom and sexualize young children. I hope the next election brings big changes in school boards across the country.

Kleinman:

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Are you really sure that your day of judgment is not going to come?

AZPaul3:

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Day of judgement? Right.
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When is that? You got the math and physics on that? It's not the same bad math you use on genetics, is it?

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It will come when you least expect it. In the meantime, enjoy having Kari Lake as your governor. I'm jealous, my governor lets crime run rampant, our forests burn down, and dumps our water stores into the ocean in times of drought. What's happening with the Colorado River now in AZ? How is Lake Mead doing? You should appreciate what California is doing with Colorado River water.

Can you name the leaders in the American educational system that are trying to groom and sexualize young children? Can you name the school districts where this is happening?Can you point to a single one of NAMBLA's goals succeeding? Can you point to any legislation anywhere in the U.S. being introduced or passed to enable pedophilia? How about book banning? You sound like Hannity. Yeah, we know, they're called churches.

Kleinman:

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Organizations like this exist all over the world.

Tanyupterys:

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Yeah, we know, they're called churches.

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It had to happen sooner or later, Tany finally got one right.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFEYz_IvTc4&t=5s&ab_chann...

You have presented nothing but your personal derision to refute it.The comparisons of the patterns of ERVs in the genomes of many species demonstrates that some were inherited from common ancestors while others were from infections that occurred since the species separated. The patterns confirm the same nested hierarchy that we see in comparisons of genomes and morphology. So far you haven't demonstrated understanding of those physical processes. Options are open. Different parasitoids that target, eggs, larvae, pupae and adults are pretty effective [two or possibly three simultaneous selection pressures). Insecticides are not an option because many of the species are occurring everywhere in our environments, and besides endangering our health, they kill beneficial species. Of course, and the parasitoids also evolve new strategies. You really don't understand the most basic biology do you? Predators and prey are continuously evolving in response to each other. This is a constant process and far more complex than two experiments with bacteria in flasks in a lab. Well, there is always something I need to learn. You need to learn the basics of evolution so you won't keep making the same silly errors trying to apply what was learned in 2 lab experiments as rules that describe all of biology.

So, AZPaul was right and what you're spreading is propaganda.