Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,815 Year: 3,072/9,624 Month: 917/1,588 Week: 100/223 Day: 11/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Rebuttal To Creationists - "Since We Can't Directly Observe Evolution..."
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 676 of 2926 (900032)
10-22-2022 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 674 by nwr
10-22-2022 10:59 AM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
Kleinman:
So, the mathematician that doesn't do the mathematics of biology thinks that Joshua Swamidass's claim that humans and chimps are related using the mathematics of neutral evolution and Joe Felsenstein does his mathematics of inferential phylogenetics by nonrandom sampling of his data is the way to prove universal common descent?
nwr:
Stop trying to tell me what I think. Your incompetence at mind reading is exceeded only by your incompetence at understanding evolution.

I don't have to read your mind on that one, you told us you don't do the mathematics of biology. Obviously, the math is too difficult for you. Let's try this one again and take the simplest example of descent with modification. What is the mathematical explanation for the reason that it takes a billion replications for each adaptive evolutionary step in the Kishony experiment? At least Tany can answer that one, his problem is that he thinks DNA evolution works differently for viruses, bacteria, and yeasts than for complex, multicellular sexually replicating organisms. I wonder if all biologists agree on that?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 674 by nwr, posted 10-22-2022 10:59 AM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(2)
Message 677 of 2926 (900033)
10-22-2022 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 675 by Kleinman
10-22-2022 11:45 AM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
I thought I heard some shouting coming thru the void. No, Just Kleinman again.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 675 by Kleinman, posted 10-22-2022 11:45 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 678 by Kleinman, posted 10-22-2022 12:11 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 678 of 2926 (900035)
10-22-2022 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 677 by AZPaul3
10-22-2022 11:48 AM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
AZPaul3:
I thought I heard some shouting coming thru the void. No, Just Kleinman again.
You might as well get used to it, somebody has to teach novices, laymen, and biologists how descent with modification works.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 677 by AZPaul3, posted 10-22-2022 11:48 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 684 by AZPaul3, posted 10-22-2022 1:12 PM Kleinman has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 679 of 2926 (900036)
10-22-2022 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 637 by Dredge
10-21-2022 1:35 PM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
Dredge writes:
It means 10-50 ... 10^-50 ... 1/10⁵⁰
Now you can show us how it was calculated.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 637 by Dredge, posted 10-21-2022 1:35 PM Dredge has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 680 of 2926 (900037)
10-22-2022 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 639 by Dredge
10-21-2022 1:42 PM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
Dredge writes:
ringo writes:
So you admit that it's only "the mathematics of God" that you're using and not real mathematics.
Correct.
Yes, I know it is.
Dredge writes:
You have no hope of understanding the mathematics of God coz you're an atheist.
So the "mathematics of God" is totally unscientific.
So whenever you mention the "mathematics of God" we can disregard it.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 639 by Dredge, posted 10-21-2022 1:42 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 686 by Dredge, posted 10-22-2022 3:12 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 681 of 2926 (900038)
10-22-2022 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 651 by Dredge
10-21-2022 11:15 PM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
Dredge writes:
You seem to have ignored the part that says,
"Although not truly impossible the probability is low enough so as to not bear mention in a rational, reasonable argument."
But you're not making a rational, reasonable argument.
My odds are the same in every draw. Kleinman's notions about "multiplying probabilities" DO NOT apply in this context. The probability is the same in every draw.
Dredge writes:
In other words, since the probabilty of the same person winning the lottery 1000 times in a row is much much less than 10^-50 (cf. 2.414×10^-8000)
It isn't. It's the same in every draw.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 651 by Dredge, posted 10-21-2022 11:15 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 697 by Dredge, posted 10-22-2022 10:42 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 682 of 2926 (900039)
10-22-2022 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 661 by Dredge
10-22-2022 5:00 AM


Re: Not Just Math, Kleinman Doesn't Know Anything
Dredge writes:
Thus, according to dwise1 logic, an actual Christian would believe that Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead by using natural processes.
That's how the paramedics do it.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 661 by Dredge, posted 10-22-2022 5:00 AM Dredge has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 683 of 2926 (900040)
10-22-2022 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 662 by Dredge
10-22-2022 6:12 AM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
Dredge writes:
Well of course you think the mathematics of God is "complete and utter bullshit ... utterly false ... completely useless" - you're an atheist.
Not just atheists. Everybody but you. Notice that even your hero Kleinman isn't acknowledging your "mathematics of God" fantasy.
And Aztecs might believe in the mathematics of Quetzalcoatl.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 662 by Dredge, posted 10-22-2022 6:12 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 687 by Dredge, posted 10-22-2022 3:26 PM ringo has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(2)
Message 684 of 2926 (900042)
10-22-2022 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 678 by Kleinman
10-22-2022 12:11 PM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
... somebody has to teach novices, laymen, and biologists how descent with modification works.
And it sure ain't going to be you. You have shown yourself to be incompetent.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 678 by Kleinman, posted 10-22-2022 12:11 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 685 by Kleinman, posted 10-22-2022 1:28 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 685 of 2926 (900045)
10-22-2022 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 684 by AZPaul3
10-22-2022 1:12 PM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
Kleinman:
... somebody has to teach novices, laymen, and biologists how descent with modification works.
AZPaul3:
And it sure ain't going to be you. You have shown yourself to be incompetent.

AZPaul3 has made some progress, he now knows that biologists don't know how to explain descent with modification.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 684 by AZPaul3, posted 10-22-2022 1:12 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 686 of 2926 (900048)
10-22-2022 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 680 by ringo
10-22-2022 12:16 PM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
ringo writes:
So the "mathematics of God" is totally unscientific.
The supernatural is by definition, unscientific.
The mathematics of God is as unscientific as abiogenesis.
So whenever you mention the "mathematics of God" we can disregard it.
You have no choice but to disregard it ... atheists cannot understand or even see the mathematics of God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 680 by ringo, posted 10-22-2022 12:16 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 772 by ringo, posted 10-24-2022 12:55 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 687 of 2926 (900049)
10-22-2022 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 683 by ringo
10-22-2022 12:37 PM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
ringo writes:
And Aztecs might believe in the mathematics of Quetzalcoatl.
The Aztecs perished because their civilisation was based on superstition and false gods, all orchestrated by demons.
Along came the true God's missionaries and colonizers to put an end to that pagan abomination.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 683 by ringo, posted 10-22-2022 12:37 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 688 by Theodoric, posted 10-22-2022 6:56 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 689 by AZPaul3, posted 10-22-2022 8:02 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 773 by ringo, posted 10-24-2022 12:57 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(2)
Message 688 of 2926 (900054)
10-22-2022 6:56 PM
Reply to: Message 687 by Dredge
10-22-2022 3:26 PM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
Oh yeah thats right you guys think genocide and child rape is a good thing as long as it is done for the glory of your deity.
May you rot in the hell you believe in.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 687 by Dredge, posted 10-22-2022 3:26 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 692 by Dredge, posted 10-22-2022 9:52 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 689 of 2926 (900056)
10-22-2022 8:02 PM
Reply to: Message 687 by Dredge
10-22-2022 3:26 PM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
Along came the true God's missionaries and colonizers to put an end to that pagan abomination.
They also brought disease, war, needless bloodshed. In the 200 years after Pizarro your religion and it's faithful killed about 60% of the indigenous population on the whole continent.
Your god is evil.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 687 by Dredge, posted 10-22-2022 3:26 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 690 by Theodoric, posted 10-22-2022 8:37 PM AZPaul3 has not replied
 Message 693 by Dredge, posted 10-22-2022 10:20 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 690 of 2926 (900057)
10-22-2022 8:37 PM
Reply to: Message 689 by AZPaul3
10-22-2022 8:02 PM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
Actually the figure is probably in excess of 90%.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 689 by AZPaul3, posted 10-22-2022 8:02 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 694 by Dredge, posted 10-22-2022 10:25 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024