Choosing a faith

By the definition of worship you provided earlier, I worship nothing. But I value food and water, shelter, family, friends, work and recreation, pretty much in that order. Private bathrooms rank pretty high, too. Oh, and hot showers. This is circular. Unless you're making stuff up about Jesus or listening to what other people make up, the only things you can "see" in Jesus come from the Bible.--Percy

Because it wasn't meant to be taken literally. Besides, just how do you fuel an everlasting fire or for that matter survive in one? I think you can probably work that out for yourself. Read "The Great Divorce".

I guess people can draw their own conclusions about that. I can also see that if His message of sacrificial love was applied to the world we would all be living far better lives as affirmation.

How do you know how the authors "meant" it to be taken? Have you never heard of miracles? If I could, I wouldn't have asked you. Why can't you answer the question? I have no desire to read amplified idiocy.Again, if you CAN answer, answer.

I REALLY wish you wouldn't use that kind of sickening religious language, it turns my stomach. If you could just stick to talking about people sticking to the golden rule and even "do as you would be done by" you'd have support from all quarters.You talk about "choosing a faith" and say it doesn't matter what god you choose so long as it's a "nice" one - it really doesn't matter whether you choose any god at all, what matters is what values you live your life by. Just cut out this god bollox, it's embarrassing, wasteful and irrelevant.

Because it's a ridiculous question and arguing jst for the sake of arguing. You made the statement that choosing hell is idiotic. You won't read the book so on what basis do you make that claim.

Wow!!! My sympathies for such a sensitive stomach. I have my strongly held foundational beliefs called nonsensical, ridiculous superstition etc etc.
That is often passed off as meaningful discussion and then gets several likes posted along side.Mocking the theists seems to be the point often and then is applauded.However you are physically sickened by the term "sacrificial love"The abuse that gets levelled against Phat is often downright cruel and often gets applauded as well.However you are physically sickened by the term "sacrificial love"For example:You guys sit around congratulating each other for your atheistic beliefs but my beliefs are bollox, embarrassing, wasteful and irrelevant.If you guys want this forum to be an atheistic forum where you can sit around congratulating yourselves for not falling for all that religious nonsense then let me know and I'll be out of your hair with my drivel.Cheers

Thanks for the recommendation. I am now finished the book and found it tremendously interesting. Actually I am kind of in the middle of the two. There are a number of things that Tony said that simply don't resonate with me. He in many ways goes further than I would on the understanding of a personal relationship Jesus along the same lines as a human friend. I think in many ways Bart has thrown out the baby with the bathwater.Tony did say something that I particularly relate to. He said on page 102:

quote:

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As I see it, the Gospel writers were not as interested in the details of Jesus' life as they were in the truth of it. Like their Old Testament counterparts, they carefully constructed their stories to give their readers insights about the meaning and purpose of life. To ask if this or that really happened the way it's described is to miss the point. What matters isn't whether each of those accounts is scrupulously accurate and consistent with all the others. WHAT MATTERS IS WHAT THEY COLLECTIVELY REVEAL ABOUT THE NATURE OF GOD.

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Mocking theists should be a constant in-your-face confrontation by any sane person. You guys peddle bullshit.Though you personally do not ascribe to all the feces pieces you are a product of that mentality; that religious mentality that has tortured humanity for millennia. You and your fellow religionists should be opposed, mocked, ridiculed until your creeds vanish from the world.Your "love for all" plank is nice and all but you arrive at it by a twisted mental exercise that ignores reality putting your personal religious fantasy in its place. The same twisted ignoring of reality that religions forced upon humanity from the start. The result being a barbaric bloody history of evil perpetrated on the people by the priests and their faithful.It needs to end. Religion must die.

I'm telling you how I see it, you tell me how you see it.I really do feel embarrassed and rather disgusted when I see people debasing themselves in "worship". Just to be clear, this is not just a Christian thing, when I see the revolting stuff other religions get up to I feel even worse. Your particular brand is the least worst - but have you watched the evangelicals in action? Muslims?This is predominantly an atheist/agnostic (whatever that means) at best, deist forum, you know that. You came here again to have another go, it really shouldn't be a surprise to find that your beliefs still don't find much tractions here.I am literally sickened by the idea of sacrificial love because it's so fake. You do not sacrifice yourself for the love of your neighbour do you? Have you given everything up to save humanity? You have not, like everyone, you compromise and do what you feel you can - then go down to the church and pat each other on the back. Praise the Lord! I'm sure you do more than most, but you do not love sacrificially.

I rest my case.

First you have to make it.At the moment what we see is at best 'no case to answer' and at worst that the prosecution offered no evidence, so it's case dismissed.There's absolutely no point coming here and saying "I believe". No one give a hoot what you believe. We know that you believe what you've been taught and what you feel comfortable with. That's interesting to you but not to us.We think your beliefs - but not your values - are daft and you haven't yet given us a reason to change our mind.

If your point is that religionists, expressing their views, find EvC a difficult neighborhood then your point is granted. And, yes, try as I may, things can get caustic.Point of emphasis is that the hard feelings are not so much at you, you really are a pleasant personality ... for a religious nutjob, but at your creed, and more in my case, wtf kind of mind twists lead to such ... stuff.Don't feel bad. I find pleasure in this thread because of your presence even though, at times, I want to smack some sense into you with a 2x4. I hope you feel the same. Some of that love presence would be good right now, yes? [abe]An additional point of emphasis just for full disclosure. Whenever someone skewers your … stuff … I’m going to give them a kiss.

You guys make my case. My case was that most of you use mockery, put downs, insults etc. as a form of debate. IMHO that is usually an indication of a weak position.

OK, but I do wonder why you need to use the term nut job. And frankly I do feel the same. I consider the belief that life, and even more so conscious life, as we see and experience it, is simply the result the highly unlikely chance of it all evolving from a mindless cause to be ludicrous, but I don't see the need to argue it using insults.