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Author Topic:   The Meaning Of The Trinity
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 586 of 1864 (899364)
10-12-2022 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 584 by candle2
10-12-2022 3:29 PM


Re: Topic Synopsis
Dwise 1, a zygote, barely two days old, would know
that Revelation was written before the Holy Roman
Empire came on the scene.
Yes, it should be glaringly obvious to anyone with at least two neurons to rub togethter.
So why didn't YOU know that?
blah blah blah religious nonsense blah blah blah
No wonder your brain is broken. You keep clogging it up with such BS nonsense.
You have done nothing to disprove that Radiocarbon
Dating is flawed.
Do you think that radiocarbon dating is flawed? Then why don't you present those flaws? You have not done that yet that I can tell. Why not?
Besides your lie that you do understand radiocarbon dating (which you very obviously did not and undoubtedly still do not), all you mentioned was finding trace amounts of C14 in coal and in diamonds where they had been created recently from nearby radiation sources deep underground. Those trace amounts have nothing whatsoever to do with radiocarbon dating!
I will explain it to you YET AGAIN (which you wlll yet again ignore whining that your phone screen is too small (So read it on your computer, idiot!))
The only C14 that plays any role in radiocarbon dating is the C14 that has been incorporated into plant tissue, from which it can pass to animal tissue through the eating of the plants or of the plant-eaters. That means that the only C14 in radiocarbon dating is atmospheric C14, not subterranean C14. If you honestly and truly (two words foreign to creationists) believe that enough of those subterranean traces of C14 are getting into the plants and hence into the food chain, then tell us how!
That should be as glaringly obvious as Revelation having been written long before the Holy Roman Empire ever existed. Especially to anyone who actually does know something about radiocarbon dating, which you just as glaringly obviously do not!
If you know of any actual flaws in radiocarbon dating, then present them and we can discuss them (assuming you don't stay true to your MO and run away from it). So what's keeping you back?
Nor have you posted anything that cast doubt on
Creation.
Of course not, because that has never been my intent! Not even once in the four decades that I've been studying "creation science" (AKA creationism, not to be confused with belief in actual Creation).
Rather, I oppose "creation science" for being nothing but a pack of lies which has led believers to lose their faith. And I don't have to cast doubt on it because just exposing its lies should be enough if creationists were honest or the least bit interested in the truth (which sadly they are not, but rather go ever deeper into denial and self-delusion).
Rather, it is creationism that works to cast doubt on Creation. Creationism, and especially YEC, denies the Creation in all of its claims and even teaches that if the Creation is actually as we find it, then that somehow disproves God. Basically, that's spiritual suicide that you are promoting and many have taken that bullet.
But in addition, creationism and its glaringly false claims make Christianity look stupid, so much so that it drives many away from ever even beginning to consider becoming a Christian.
By destroying its followers' faith and warning other away from converting, creationism does truly contribute to the growth and spread of atheism.
You're doing a good job of it!
In fact, you have increased my belief in God and
Creation.
Yep, burrowing even deeper into denial and self-delusion in a desperate attempt to hide from the truth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 584 by candle2, posted 10-12-2022 3:29 PM candle2 has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 587 of 1864 (899365)
10-12-2022 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 584 by candle2
10-12-2022 3:29 PM


Re: Topic Synopsis
The Books of Daniel and Revelation support each other. Both Books tell of past and future events.
Fiction.
You have done nothing to disprove that Radiocarbon Dating is flawed.
You have not presented a shred of evidence that radio dating is flawed.
Nor have you posted anything that cast doubt on Creation.
And you have presented no evidence supporting it. Nothing but fiction and fairy tales.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 584 by candle2, posted 10-12-2022 3:29 PM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 590 by candle2, posted 10-13-2022 11:42 AM Tanypteryx has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 588 of 1864 (899374)
10-12-2022 8:02 PM
Reply to: Message 584 by candle2
10-12-2022 3:29 PM


Re: Topic Synopsis
You have done nothing to disprove that Radiocarbon
Dating is flawed.
Why should we when it isn't?
Nor have you posted anything that cast doubt on
Creation.
We don't have a creation. You do. You have to do the proving else we can all laugh at you and call you insulting things like "religionist" and "goatherder myths psycho" and like that.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 584 by candle2, posted 10-12-2022 3:29 PM candle2 has not replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 827
Joined: 12-31-2018
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 589 of 1864 (899411)
10-13-2022 11:02 AM
Reply to: Message 571 by Theodoric
10-11-2022 12:31 PM


Re: Jewish chronicles and the big JC
Theodoric, there are multiple dozens of countries that
have names for the seventh day that are associated with
the Sabbath.
Here are just a few:
Italian-Sabato
Indonesian-Sabutu
Russian-Subbota
Spanish-Sabado
Armenia-Shabat
There is such connection to Sunday.
Some say that the identity of the original Seventh Day
was lost, but there is no proof of this. In any case, I
don't buy that for a second.
For the sake of argument, let's assume that the days
had become confused.
The 40 years (2180 Sabbaths) that God had Israel in
the wilderness would have straightened that out.
The 7th Day for ancient Rome was called Saturn's Day.
This was the same as Saturday for the Jews.
Cassius Dio - Roman History 37. 16. 1-4 States that the
Jews would do no work on Saturn day. I/ was their
Sabbath Day.
Rome would use these Saturn Days to batter down the
walls protecting the Jews.
In 70 A.D., Vespasian employed the same technique
of attacking Judea on Saturn Day.
The Apostles were certain of the Sabbath Day. And, they
recorded in their Biblical books.
The modern Greek word for the 7th Day is Sabbato.
The Julian Calendar was in use from 46 B.C. till A.D.
1582.
On Thursday, October 4, 1582 the switch was made to the
Gregory's Calendar (Thursday was the 5th day of the week).
The Gregorian Calendar jumped from Thursday the 4th
to Friday the 15th. As always the day following Thursday
was Friday.
The Jews list their days by names, not numbers. This
prevents any confusion.
God gave Israel His Calendar. His days would begin in
the evening, at the going down of the sun.
His Sabbath began at the going down of the sun on
Friday till the going down of the sun on Saturday. At this
time the 1st day of the week (Sunday) began.
The Julian and Gregorian calendars, named respectively
for a Roman Emperor and a Catholic Pope, had days that
began/begins at midnight.
The beast and image of the beast (who think to change
times and laws) moved the 7th Day Sabbath to the 1st
day-Sunday.
Many saints were put to death for not accepting the
identifying mark of the beast. This will happen again.
When the Holy Roman Empire again comes into world-
wide power, they will force their own times and laws on
everyone.
The world will actually worship the beast and its image.
Anyone not observing Sunday and working on the true
Sabbath will be turned in to the authorities.
God said that the Sabbath was a sign between Him and
Israel forever. It is perpetual.
The Jews have kept the sign that identifies them as such.
The other tribes if Israel have deserted the very sign that
identifies them as Israel.
However, their identities have been uncovered.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 571 by Theodoric, posted 10-11-2022 12:31 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 591 by Theodoric, posted 10-13-2022 11:57 AM candle2 has replied
 Message 596 by dwise1, posted 10-13-2022 1:38 PM candle2 has replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 827
Joined: 12-31-2018
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 590 of 1864 (899412)
10-13-2022 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 587 by Tanypteryx
10-12-2022 5:07 PM


Re: Topic Synopsis
Tanyptery, we all know the limits and inaccuracies of
dating.
Basic assumptions used in dating methods are
are just that, assumptions. Wrong assumptions lead to
unreliable data.
Don't pretend that you don't know about the unreliability
of dating methods.
I know, beyond any doubt, that you and all evolutionists
have these huge doubts.
If a dating technique is found to be wrong just once, none
of the results can be trusted.
You know this, and I know this. And, you know that I
know this.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 587 by Tanypteryx, posted 10-12-2022 5:07 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 592 by Theodoric, posted 10-13-2022 11:58 AM candle2 has not replied
 Message 593 by PaulK, posted 10-13-2022 12:00 PM candle2 has not replied
 Message 594 by Tanypteryx, posted 10-13-2022 12:13 PM candle2 has not replied
 Message 595 by ringo, posted 10-13-2022 12:49 PM candle2 has not replied
 Message 597 by dwise1, posted 10-13-2022 2:25 PM candle2 has not replied
 Message 598 by AZPaul3, posted 10-13-2022 5:03 PM candle2 has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 591 of 1864 (899413)
10-13-2022 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 589 by candle2
10-13-2022 11:02 AM


Re: Jewish chronicles and the big JC
Irrelevant.
None of what you said here supports your original claim.
waxydude writes:
The Jews have records that show which day Christ
kept.
Again, I state.
Source and evidence, please. There is no mention of Jesus by Jews until hundreds of years after the myth started.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 589 by candle2, posted 10-13-2022 11:02 AM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 599 by candle2, posted 10-13-2022 5:36 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 592 of 1864 (899414)
10-13-2022 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 590 by candle2
10-13-2022 11:42 AM


Re: Topic Synopsis
Source and data to support these claims.
Just asserting something does not make it true or correct. See the Hitchens quote below.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 590 by candle2, posted 10-13-2022 11:42 AM candle2 has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 593 of 1864 (899415)
10-13-2022 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 590 by candle2
10-13-2022 11:42 AM


Re: Topic Synopsis
quote:
Tanyptery, we all know the limits and inaccuracies of
dating.
I doubt that you do. I certainly doubt that you know about all the work that has been done to verify and check our dating methods,
quote:
Basic assumptions used in dating methods are
are just that, assumptions. Wrong assumptions lead to
unreliable data.
Aside from the fact that you don’t understand the word “data” perhaps you would like to explain which assumptions are wrong.
quote:
Don't pretend that you don't know about the unreliability
of dating methods.
We know that they are more than reliable enough to prove that the Earth is billions of years old.
quote:
I know, beyond any doubt, that you and all evolutionists
have these huge doubts.
I know for a fact that we don’t.
quote:
If a dating technique is found to be wrong just once, none
of the results can be trusted
Not if we understand the error and can avoid it. And, of course, if the error underestimates the age, or the error depends on the presence of older material then it can’t cast any doubt on the fact that the Earth is much older than your masters would claim.
quote:
You know this, and I know this. And, you know that I
know this.
Good job that we know better than you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 590 by candle2, posted 10-13-2022 11:42 AM candle2 has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(1)
Message 594 of 1864 (899417)
10-13-2022 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 590 by candle2
10-13-2022 11:42 AM


Re: Topic Synopsis
Tanypteryx we all know the limits and inaccuracies of dating.
No, you don't! If you knew anything about radio dating you would present it.
Basic assumptions used in dating methods are are just that, assumptions. Wrong assumptions lead to unreliable data.
Basic assumptions regarding radio dating are based on mountains of evidence. You have not presented any wrong assumption. If there are any you would present them.
I know, beyond any doubt, that you and all evolutionists have these huge doubts.
We do. We have these huge doubts that you will ever present a single shred of evidence. You are trying to jam a silly, fictional, fairy tale into reality, but it's fiction. Multiple different dating methods ALL show that the Earth is billions of years old, and life is too. We have evidence, you have fiction.
If a dating technique is found to be wrong just once, none of the results can be trusted.

You know this, and I know this. And, you know that I know this.
Yep, and I know you have no evidence that the radio dating methods are wrong and you know that YOU HAVE NO EVIDENCE AND I KNOW THAT YOU HAVE NO EVIDENCE.
We also all know that you have absolutely no knowledge about radio dating whatsoever.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 590 by candle2, posted 10-13-2022 11:42 AM candle2 has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 595 of 1864 (899422)
10-13-2022 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 590 by candle2
10-13-2022 11:42 AM


Re: Topic Synopsis
candle2 writes:
Basic assumptions used in dating methods are
are just that, assumptions.
And you don't understand what assumptions are.
When we put a satellite in orbit, we assume that the earth is round. That's not just a wild guess. It's a well-established fact. It is important to keep it in mind when we launch a satellite but it is NOT in doubt.
candle2 writes:
If a dating technique is found to be wrong just once, none
of the results can be trusted.
Don't be silly. You don't use that standard for anything else. Have you ever heard what the carpenters say? "Measure twice, cut once." They measure twice because ANY measurement can be wrong. They measure twice to make sure there was no mistake in the first measurement. You don't hear a carpenter say, "I'm sorry, we can't build your house because the measurements are unreliable."
And radiometric dating is also done repeatedly on multiple samples for the same reason.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 590 by candle2, posted 10-13-2022 11:42 AM candle2 has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(1)
Message 596 of 1864 (899425)
10-13-2022 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 589 by candle2
10-13-2022 11:02 AM


Re: Jewish chronicles and the big JC
Theodoric, there are multiple dozens of countries that
have names for the seventh day that are associated with
the Sabbath.

Here are just a few:

Italian-Sabato
Indonesian-Sabutu
Russian-Subbota
Spanish-Sabado
Armenia-Shabat

There is such connection to Sunday.
That last line is puzzling. Are you saying that there is that kind of connect to Sunday? So why don't you tell us what that connection is?
Or was that a typo that left out the word "no" and you actually meant to say, "There is no such connection to Sunday." I find that more likely since it at least makes sense as English whereas what you had posted just sounds weird.
In that case, then you are most definitely wrong:
  • Spanish -- Domingo:
    quote:
    La voz «domingo» proviene del latín tardío [dies] dominĭcus (‘día del Señor’)​, debido a la celebración cristiana de la resurrección de Jesús. En la antigua Roma, se llamaba a este día dies solis (‘día del sol’). En cambio, «domínica/dominica» proviene del latín tardío dominĭca.
  • French -- Dimanche:
    quote:
    En français, le mot « dimanche » est un nom commun issu de *diominicu (*non attesté), qui remonte au gallo-roman *didominicu par dissimilation consonantique, lui-même du latin chrétien dies dominica (latin dies Dominicus) ou « jour du Seigneur »
  • Italian -- Domenica:
    quote:
    L'origine della parola "domenica" deriva dall'espressione latina dies Dominicus («giorno del Signore»), quale giorno della resurrezione di Gesù, nel terzo giorno dalla sua morte. Nella Genesi 2:3 Mosè narra che al termine della creazione «Dio benedisse il settimo giorno e lo consacrò al riposo, perché in esso aveva cessato da ogni opera che egli aveva fatto creando negli altri sei»
  • Greek -- Κυριακη from Κυριος ("Lord")
In most Germanic languages, Sunday is the day of the sun, which is to say the Sun God (in general, the days of the week are named for pagan gods as they also are in Romance languages. Indeed, city clocks would display the day of the week with an image of that day's god (eg, the Gros Horloge in Rouen, France).
So what are you talking about?
{ stream of irrelevant nonsense "addressing" an "issue" that nobody raised }
The Jews list their days by names, not numbers. This
prevents any confusion.
Absolutely wrong.
The names of the days of the week in Hebrew (transliterated):
Sunday -- Yom Rishon = "First Day"
Monday -- Yom Sheni = "Second Day"
Tuesday -- Yom Shelishi = "Third Day"
Wednesday -- Yom Revi'i = "Fourth Day"
Thursday -- Yom Khamishi = "Fifth Day"
Friday -- Yom Shishi = "Sixth Day"
Saturday -- Yom Shabbath = "Sabbath Day"
The days of the week in Greek are also numbered, except for the first day, Sunday, which is Κυριακη from Κυριος ("Lord").
When the Holy Roman Empire again comes into world-
wide power, they will force their own times and laws on
everyone.
What the hell are you talking about? That is complete and utter nonsense!
The Holy Roman Empire ceased to exist 6 August 1806 when it was dissolved by Holy Roman Emperor Francis II. Austria was at war with Napoleon and was certain to lose, so Francis II, not wanting Napoleon to be Holy Roman Emperor, dissolved the empire and abdicated.
The Holy Roman Empire is history and will not come back. Its former lands are now part of well-established countries including Germany and Italy. It's never going to come back.
But yet again, what are you talking about? And do you have anything to contribute that isn't utter nonsense?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 589 by candle2, posted 10-13-2022 11:02 AM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 603 by candle2, posted 10-14-2022 12:55 PM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 597 of 1864 (899429)
10-13-2022 2:25 PM
Reply to: Message 590 by candle2
10-13-2022 11:42 AM


Re: Topic Synopsis
{ typical creationist BS lies about radiometric dating methods }
You know this, and I know this. And, you know that I
know this.
Yes, we do know about radiometric dating methods, but you do not! How do we know that you don't know what you're talking about? Because we have seen you repeatedly post utter nonsense on the subject.
IF YOU HAVE A CLAIM TO MAKE, THEN MAKE IT!
If you know of any actual flaws, then present them and include the reasoning behind presenting them as flaws. IOW, you need to demonstrate enough knowledge of those "flaws" to be able to discuss them and to support your contention that they present some kind of problem. IOW, stop playing your game of the willfully ignorant (your handlers) leading the willfully stupid (you).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 590 by candle2, posted 10-13-2022 11:42 AM candle2 has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 598 of 1864 (899435)
10-13-2022 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 590 by candle2
10-13-2022 11:42 AM


Re: Topic Synopsis
Don't pretend that you don't know about the unreliability
of dating methods.
If you misuse them they can be very unreliable. Like using your car odometer to measure your drapes.
That's the kind of "unreliable" you're talking about.
So what flaws in dating methods can you show? Be specific in details because, being in his house, you know where the devil is.
You know this, and I know this. And, you know that I
know this.
What we know is that you're a freaking religious nutjob.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 590 by candle2, posted 10-13-2022 11:42 AM candle2 has not replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 827
Joined: 12-31-2018
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 599 of 1864 (899439)
10-13-2022 5:36 PM
Reply to: Message 591 by Theodoric
10-13-2022 11:57 AM


Re: Jewish chronicles and the big JC
Theodoric, sure it does.
Peter, John, Paul, James, Mark, Matthew, and the
other writers of the New Testament were all Jews.
I proved to you that Saturday is the Sabbath. You just
don't like being presented with the facts.
Funny, evolutionists are like that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 591 by Theodoric, posted 10-13-2022 11:57 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 600 by Theodoric, posted 10-13-2022 5:53 PM candle2 has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 600 of 1864 (899440)
10-13-2022 5:53 PM
Reply to: Message 599 by candle2
10-13-2022 5:36 PM


Re: Jewish chronicles and the big JC
You have no evidence for them or Jesus.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 599 by candle2, posted 10-13-2022 5:36 PM candle2 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 601 by Dredge, posted 10-13-2022 9:20 PM Theodoric has replied

  
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