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Member (Idle past 6157 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The Meaning Of The Trinity | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
candle2 Member (Idle past 123 days) Posts: 892 Joined: |
Ringo, Sunday is simply referred to as the "first day of
the week." Even decades after the death of Christ it was stillreferred to as the "first day of the week." The Catholic Encyclopedia states that Sunday worshipwas initiated by the sole authority of the RCC. They state correctly that the NT does not support Sunday worship. The CE states as fact that all these other churchesfollowed the example of the RCC. This they assert is clear proof of the RCC God given right to Trump clear Biblical teachings. Both Rome and the RCC have sentenced many to deathfor not working on the Seventh Day Sabbath and resting on Sunday. Sunday worship is a mark of the Holy Roman Empire. Both of these beasts are discussed in Revelations 13.
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candle2 Member (Idle past 123 days) Posts: 892 Joined: |
Phat, point out to me in the Bible where Jesus said that
any day is the Sabbath. Point it out to me where any of the Apostles said thatany day can be the Sabbath. The Bible is very specific about which day is theSabbath. Jesus said that to break the least of His commandments,or to teach others to do so, is the same as breaking them all. To disobey a direct command from God is not a goodthing. I spent nine years in an orphanage. During this nineyears we attended a Church of Christ three times a a week. I believed that Sunday had replaced the Seventh DaySabbath with all my heart. It is extremely difficult to challenge ourselves as to whywe believe what we do. As for being legal, what is wrong with that? Do you want the deeds to your house and car to belegal? You seem to think that those keeping the SaturdaySabbath are trying to earn salvation, rather than trying to obey God. Do you think that those who don't steal or murder aretrying to be legalistic? How about those who honor their parents. Are theytrying to be legalistic? Don't you think that it sounds cheap and tacky to singleout one Commandment and say that those who obey it are somehow inferior to those who obey the other Commandments.
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candle2 Member (Idle past 123 days) Posts: 892 Joined: |
Ringo, the Jews have kept meticulous records.
The Jews have records that show which day Christkept.
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candle2 Member (Idle past 123 days) Posts: 892 Joined: |
Dwise 1, the Bible is, in one sense, a Book about God and the
nation of Isreal. And, those nations that come into contact with Israel. The 10 tribe nation of Israel were settled into Northern andWestern Europe before Rome ever became a major power. When the Bible talks about a beast it refers to a king orkingdom. And the type of beast describes the characteristics of the king/kingdom. These beasts had profound effects on the nations of Israeland Judah. In 321 A.D., Constantine issued a civil decree making Sundaya day of rest from labor. All judges and civil people were told acknowledge both the sun and the venerable day of the sun. There was no wiggle room for disobeying the Emperor.Sunday was a mark of Rome, the beast. In 363-364 A.D., the Council of Laodicea issued a decree(Canon 29) stating: "Christians must not Judaize by resting on the Sabbath, butmust work on that day, rather honoring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians." "But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them beanathema (excommunicated) from Christ." The mark of the second beast in Revelation 13 is alsoSunday. The main reason popes held power over the emperorswere that the church held the power to excommunicate an entire nation if the Emperor or kings went against them. The people would go against the secular powers if they believed they would be shut off from God. This second (or image of the first beast) beast (pope)boldly states that "We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty. Is this not extreme blasphemy? Daniel speaks of this same second beast in 7:25: "And He shall speak great words against the most High,and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws...."
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candle2 Member (Idle past 123 days) Posts: 892 Joined: |
Dwise 1, Revelation 13:3 "And I saw one of his (beast)
head as it was wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed; and all the world wondered after the beast." The Roman Empire lasted from 31 B.C. till 476 A.D. Rome was conquered by three Germanic (assyrian)tribes: Vandals; Heruli; and, Ostrogoths. However it was not Charlemage who returned Rome toglory; it was Justinian 1, in 554 A.D. This was the first head of the seven headed beast withten horns. Every head of this beast refers to the Holy RomanEmpire, or union of church and state. Charlemagne was the second head of this beast, orrevival of the system. Granted that he was more resourceful than Justinian 1,but Justinian was the first head of the union between church and state. The sixth head was Hitler. The Vatican assisted withThe escape of many Nazis to Argentina. The Nazis realized that they would lose WW2 in 1943.The Bible says they went I to the bottomless pit, which simply means they went underground. They have been planning all these years for the next war. The seventh head, or seventh revival, of the Holy RomanEmpire will unite the RCC and 10 nations. This seventh head is the same as the feet and ten toesof the image in Daniel 2. Read verse 44 where Christ destroys this universal churchand 10 kings. He will at that time set His Kingdom up. And, this time hewill rule over it.
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candle2 Member (Idle past 123 days) Posts: 892 Joined: |
Dredge, you ask where does the RCC state that the Bible
does not support Sunday worship. Cardinal Gibbons, in Faith of Our Father's, 92nd ed., p.89freely admits: "You may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, andyou will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday." "The scriptures enforce the religious observance ofSaturday, a day which we (the Catholic Church) never sanctify." "The Catholic Church... by virtue of her Devine mission,changed the day from Saturday to Sunday." When asked whether the Church could prove they hadpower to make changes--this reply. "Had she not the power she could not have done that inwhich all modern religion is agree with her-she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday, the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday, the seventh day, a change for which there is no scriptural authority.
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candle2 Member (Idle past 123 days) Posts: 892 Joined: |
Dwise 1, a zygote, barely two days old, would know
that Revelation was written before the Holy Roman Empire came on the scene. Jesus, through the Apostle John, was revealingfuture events, events that would affect both Israel and Judah. Anyone can write about events that have alreadyoccurred. It requires revelations to accurately write about future events. The Books of Daniel and Revelation support eachother. Both Books tell of past and future events. Some of Daniel's visions of the future were soterrifying that he would feel ill for several days after experiencing them. Daniel asked God for the meanings of the end-timeevents that He had visions of. Daniel 12:8. God's reply in verse 9: "Go thy way Daniel; for thewords are closed up and sealed till the time of the end." In other words, these were future events, and theywould be understood by His Church at that time. This is little bit off the subject, but you brought it up. You have done nothing to disprove that RadiocarbonDating is flawed. Nor have you posted anything that cast doubt onCreation. In fact, you have increased my belief in God andCreation.
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candle2 Member (Idle past 123 days) Posts: 892 Joined: |
Theodoric, there are multiple dozens of countries that
have names for the seventh day that are associated with the Sabbath. Here are just a few: Italian-SabatoIndonesian-Sabutu Russian-Subbota Spanish-Sabado Armenia-Shabat There is such connection to Sunday. Some say that the identity of the original Seventh Daywas lost, but there is no proof of this. In any case, I don't buy that for a second. For the sake of argument, let's assume that the dayshad become confused. The 40 years (2180 Sabbaths) that God had Israel inthe wilderness would have straightened that out. The 7th Day for ancient Rome was called Saturn's Day.This was the same as Saturday for the Jews. Cassius Dio - Roman History 37. 16. 1-4 States that theJews would do no work on Saturn day. I/ was their Sabbath Day. Rome would use these Saturn Days to batter down thewalls protecting the Jews. In 70 A.D., Vespasian employed the same techniqueof attacking Judea on Saturn Day. The Apostles were certain of the Sabbath Day. And, theyrecorded in their Biblical books. The modern Greek word for the 7th Day is Sabbato. The Julian Calendar was in use from 46 B.C. till A.D.1582. On Thursday, October 4, 1582 the switch was made to theGregory's Calendar (Thursday was the 5th day of the week). The Gregorian Calendar jumped from Thursday the 4thto Friday the 15th. As always the day following Thursday was Friday. The Jews list their days by names, not numbers. Thisprevents any confusion. God gave Israel His Calendar. His days would begin inthe evening, at the going down of the sun. His Sabbath began at the going down of the sun onFriday till the going down of the sun on Saturday. At this time the 1st day of the week (Sunday) began. The Julian and Gregorian calendars, named respectivelyfor a Roman Emperor and a Catholic Pope, had days that began/begins at midnight. The beast and image of the beast (who think to changetimes and laws) moved the 7th Day Sabbath to the 1st day-Sunday. Many saints were put to death for not accepting theidentifying mark of the beast. This will happen again. When the Holy Roman Empire again comes into world-wide power, they will force their own times and laws on everyone. The world will actually worship the beast and its image. Anyone not observing Sunday and working on the trueSabbath will be turned in to the authorities. God said that the Sabbath was a sign between Him andIsrael forever. It is perpetual. The Jews have kept the sign that identifies them as such. The other tribes if Israel have deserted the very sign thatidentifies them as Israel. However, their identities have been uncovered.
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candle2 Member (Idle past 123 days) Posts: 892 Joined: |
Tanyptery, we all know the limits and inaccuracies of
dating. Basic assumptions used in dating methods areare just that, assumptions. Wrong assumptions lead to unreliable data. Don't pretend that you don't know about the unreliabilityof dating methods. I know, beyond any doubt, that you and all evolutionistshave these huge doubts. If a dating technique is found to be wrong just once, noneof the results can be trusted. You know this, and I know this. And, you know that Iknow this.
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candle2 Member (Idle past 123 days) Posts: 892 Joined: |
Theodoric, sure it does.
Peter, John, Paul, James, Mark, Matthew, and theother writers of the New Testament were all Jews. I proved to you that Saturday is the Sabbath. You justdon't like being presented with the facts. Funny, evolutionists are like that.
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candle2 Member (Idle past 123 days) Posts: 892 Joined: |
Dwise 1, the Holy Roman Empire rises and falls. There
is to come one more resurrection of the HRE. After the death of Justinian, the HRE waned in power.It remained that way until Charlemagne came on the scene. After the death of Charlemagne the HRE once againexperienced the loss of much of its secular and religious power and influence. It stayed this way until Otto the Great came along.Otto was the third head (revival) of the same old secular/religious system. The countries of Germany, Spain, Italy, France, Austria,and several other countries of Western Europe are generally included in the realm of the HRE. But, all of them need not be part of the power structure in each and every head (revival). When most people think if the HRE they think of Rome.However, the main force behind the HRE has shifted to Germany. Starting with Charlemagne, Germany has been thesecular ruler in four of the six heads. Germany was the main instigators in the Franco-Prussian War; WW1; and, WW2. The beast and false prophet in Revelation 13 will bea secular German Ruler and the Pope. Germany and the nine other European countries unitedwith them will yield such enormous military and economic might that much of the world will follow their dictates. The Vatican is both a ecclesiastical entity, and a nationthat sends and receives ambassadors. No other secular and ecclesiastical combination inrecorded history, except the HRE, comes close to fitting The Biblical description of the beast and image of the beast. Sorry, I meant to say that there is no such connectionto Sunday.
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candle2 Member (Idle past 123 days) Posts: 892 Joined: |
Dwise 1, in Daniel 2, King Nebuchadnezzar had a dream
about a great image. Verse 32 "The image's head was of fine gold, his breastand his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass. 33. His legs of iron, and feet part of iron and part of clay. In verse 34, Daniel saw a great stone smite the imageupon his feet made of iron and clay, and broke them to pieces. In verse 38, Daniel tell King Nebuchadnezzar that he andhis Kingdom was the head of gold. His Kingdom was Babylon. The next Kingdom, represented by the breast and silverwas then followed by the third Kingdom represented by the belly and thight of brass. The second Kingdom turned out to be the Medes-persianEmpire. The third was the Greek Empire. Verse 40: "And the fourth Kingdom shall be strong asiron: formasmuch as iron breakest in pieces and subdues all things: and as iron that breaks all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise." Verse 41: "And whereas thou saw the feet and toes,part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, formasmuch as thou saw the iron mixed with Mary clay." Verse 42: "And as the toes of the feet were part of iron,and part of clay, so the Kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken." Verse 44: "And in the days of these kings (10) shall theGod of heaven set up a Kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: And the Kingdom shall not be left to other people, butit shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever." This fourth beast is the same as the fourth beast inDaniel 7:19-20. The ten toes of the image in chapter two are the sameas the ten horns (kings) on the 7th head of the beast in Revelation 13. It is clearly understood that the fourth beast inRevelation 2 is that of the Roman Empire. The clay mingled with the iron on the feet and toes ofthis beast is the RCC. It is the glue that holds the union together. Verse 44 in Daniel 2 tells us that this beast is extantwhen Christ returns and destroys it. The only way this fourth beast could still have suchenormous power and authority when Christ returns is If there is a revival of the HRE. The sixth and seventh heads of the beast are revivedafter you claim that the HRE died for good.
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candle2 Member (Idle past 123 days) Posts: 892 Joined: |
AZPaul3, read your post and then tell me who needs
the help. Learn to control your rage.
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candle2 Member (Idle past 123 days) Posts: 892 Joined: |
Dwise 1, this isn't a thread about evolution, nor is it a
thread about ridiculous dating techniques. Stop pretending that evolutionists have crystal ballsthat can tell us exactly what happened and when it happened. However, I will state my objections to carbon-datingmethods as soon as my wife and I return from our vacation. Study assumptions.
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candle2 Member (Idle past 123 days) Posts: 892 Joined: |
Dwise 1, one of the grandkids got sick, and granny had to
to come back home. So here is what I mean by assumptions. Assumingsomething to be true is not good science. In fact it is not science at all. Scientists who believe in evolution are among the mostassuming scientists in the world. When dating dead organisms utilizing the Carbon-14dating method two facts need to be established. One is the decay rate of C-14.The other is the starting amount. There is no way to determine if the ratio of C-14 to C-12in the atmosphere has always been the same as it is today. If one assumes that the ratio is true, and the assumptionis true, the dating method is valid up to perhaps 75,000 years. If the assumption is not true the method will giveincorrect dates. Since we have no way of knowing the ratio of C14 to C-125000 years ago, we do not have the empirical or observational science necessary for interpretations of past events. When we lack observational knowledge/science, we areleft with historical science. Historical science can be highly subjective. Evolutionists rely heavily on historical science, which involves assumptions. The founder of the Carbon-14 dating method, Dr. WillardLibby, assumed (ain't this what evolutionists do) the rate to be constant based on evolution. Then he noted that the atmosphere did not appear to bein equilibrium. By this I mean that the amount of Carbon atoms in theatmosphere must equal the amount being removed. The Specific Production Rate of C14 per gram iscurrently twice that of Specific Decay Rate. Dr. Libby ignored the nonequilibrium state. By Dr. Libby's own estimation it would be 30,000 yearsto reach equilibrium. I am not even taking into account the effects of theworldwide flood, or earth's changing magnetic field. Nor am I taking into account contamination, or any ofthe other issues involved with dating techniques. Evolutionists thrive on assumptions, especially falseones. But, even when wrong no one calls them on it. Evolutionists are the ones who get the grants, and theones who run our universities. They can and do distort facts to fit their agenda. I knowthis as fact. And nobody is going to change my mind.
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