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Author Topic:   Rebuttal To Creationists - "Since We Can't Directly Observe Evolution..."
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(2)
Message 330 of 2926 (899223)
10-10-2022 8:17 PM
Reply to: Message 329 by Kleinman
10-10-2022 5:38 PM


Re: Tanypteryx explains the physics and mathematics of biological evolution
Kleinman writes:
Tanypteryx explains the physics and mathematics of biological evolution
Now see, this is why I doubt your credibility. You behave like an obnoxious jerk rather than a scientist with something interesting to say.
Did I confuse you with my explanation of the physics (thermodynamics) of Darwinian Evolution?
Nope, because your explanation doesn't describe the evolution of the organisms I study.
Is that a tacit admission that I've done the mathematics of the Kishony and Lenski experiments correctly?
Nope, I'm saying that you alienate many of the only people who could appreciate your work.
And that you are mistaken to try and extrapolate what was learned from those narrow experiments to rules for how mutation and selection occur in all complex, sexually reproducing, multicellular organisms. You ignore that every individual organism acquire numerous mutations that can be passed on to their descendants along with thousands of other mutations that they each inherited from their ancestors.
Taq explained your lower-division, undergraduate-level blunders, but you have far too lofty an intellect to learn anything from him.
I await your Nobel acceptance speech for medicine.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 329 by Kleinman, posted 10-10-2022 5:38 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 331 by Kleinman, posted 10-10-2022 9:25 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(1)
Message 332 of 2926 (899230)
10-10-2022 9:41 PM
Reply to: Message 331 by Kleinman
10-10-2022 9:25 PM


Re: Tanypteryx explains the physics and mathematics of biological evolution
Taq hasn't found any blunders in my analysis or explanation.
Taq pointed out your ignorance in every post.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 331 by Kleinman, posted 10-10-2022 9:25 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 333 by Kleinman, posted 10-10-2022 10:19 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(4)
Message 334 of 2926 (899239)
10-10-2022 10:49 PM
Reply to: Message 333 by Kleinman
10-10-2022 10:19 PM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
Are there any biologists on this forum that understand the physics and mathematics of biological evolution?
The biologists on this forum understand that you are incorrect in your insistence that your calculations apply to anything other than bacteria and viruses. In sexually reproducing organisms, offspring inherit mutations from their parents and pass them plus their new mutations on to their offspring. It really isn't that difficult.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 333 by Kleinman, posted 10-10-2022 10:19 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 338 by Kleinman, posted 10-10-2022 11:30 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(1)
Message 337 of 2926 (899242)
10-10-2022 11:28 PM
Reply to: Message 335 by nwr
10-10-2022 10:53 PM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
And, by the way, your model is broken.
Plus, I'm still wondering why he thinks it's important to mention the laws of thermodynamics so often when he talks about his mutations and selection?
And why doesn't he ever analyze all those other types of selection that we see out in the field?
And what's he got against fossil tea leaves?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 335 by nwr, posted 10-10-2022 10:53 PM nwr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 340 by nwr, posted 10-10-2022 11:35 PM Tanypteryx has replied
 Message 342 by Kleinman, posted 10-10-2022 11:54 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(1)
Message 341 of 2926 (899246)
10-10-2022 11:42 PM
Reply to: Message 340 by nwr
10-10-2022 11:35 PM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
That's probably because he is a creationist, and creationists have weird ideas about thermodynamics.
True, and he's a really weird creationist. He appears to have a top notch education but then he corrupts it to promote this nonsense.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 340 by nwr, posted 10-10-2022 11:35 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 344 by Kleinman, posted 10-11-2022 12:16 AM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(1)
Message 345 of 2926 (899250)
10-11-2022 12:48 AM
Reply to: Message 342 by Kleinman
10-10-2022 11:54 PM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
Descent with modification (DNA adaptation) is a second law of thermodynamics process where the random trial is a replication.
Sorry, what random trial? So, the second law is an important term in your equation?
Biological evolutionary competition is a first law of thermodynamics conservation of energy process
So, the first law is an important term in your equation?
What all these selection conditions have in common is that if a single mutation can give improved reproductive fitness to that member, it will take about 1/(mutation rate) replications for that mutation to have a reasonable probability of occurring. If it takes 2 or more mutations to give improved fitness, the number of replications goes up exponentially.
What you keep ignoring is the fact that many species have millions of mutations happening in every generation that are passed to descendants. These mutations are happening on multiple chromosome and on multiple genes that can all be passed to offspring along with mutations from past ancestors. Most genes are not under selection and are passed on to descendants and neutral mutations keep getting passed on and accumulating in descendants too. You say only one of them can be beneficial in a billion generations and then the next after another billion generations.
The problem is that reading fossil tea leaves doesn't correctly explain the physics and mathematics of biological evolution.
Well, you may be right. I couldn't find a single record of fossil tea leaves, Camellia sinensis
I would also note that evolutionary biology doesn't use mathematics, but evolutionary science does.
You should have transitional fossil forms coming out of your ears if universal common descent was true.
Good prediction, it turns out we do. I guess while you were getting that fancy education you didn't visit and university fossil collections. Probably too busy taking those high school probability courses

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 342 by Kleinman, posted 10-10-2022 11:54 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 347 by Kleinman, posted 10-11-2022 8:47 AM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(1)
Message 353 of 2926 (899280)
10-11-2022 12:59 PM
Reply to: Message 347 by Kleinman
10-11-2022 8:47 AM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
Tanypteryx writes:
What you keep ignoring is the fact that many species have millions of mutations happening in every generation that are passed to descendants. These mutations are happening on multiple chromosome and on multiple genes that can all be passed to offspring along with mutations from past ancestors. Most genes are not under selection and are passed on to descendants and neutral mutations keep getting passed on and accumulating in descendants too. You say only one of them can be beneficial in a billion generations and then the next after another billion generations.
Kleinman writes:
That's not correct, I don't ignore these possibilities. The equations I've presented apply to every site in the genome, not just the site where an adaptive mutation can occur. So, take the example of the Kishony experiment. His founder bacteria don't have a member with the first adaptive mutation. So the founder starts a colony in the drug-free region. When that colony grows to a number of about 1/(mutation rate) population size, this colony will have done an exhaustive search of every possible mutation in that sample space. In other words, that population will have a member with every possible mutation at every site in the genome. But, only those members with an adaptive mutation can grow in the next higher drug concentration region. Now, think about what that new founder in the next higher drug concentration must do to get the next adaptive mutation.
And then you completely ignored what I said and repeated the same thing about bacteria that you have already repeated a hundred time. I am talking about complex, multicellular, sexually reproducing species and you keep talking about bacteria starting from a single clone.
Kleinman writes:
Should evolutionary science based on the laws of physics, mathematics, and experimental evidence conform to the interpretation of the fossil record or should it be the other way around?
You tell me. You seem to be saying that the fossil record violates the laws of physics. What do you think fossils represent? What do you think the whole fossil record that has been discovered so far represents?
Kleinman writes:
Evolutionary science shows that each adaptive evolutionary step requires about 1/(mutation rate) replications. That's for each adaptive mutation.
No, that's what your calculations using data from 2 experiments with bacteria showed. You have not demonstrated that your calculations apply to the evolution of populations of complex, multicellular, sexually reproducing species.
Kleinman writes:
And I have visited museums with fossil collections. I don't recall seeing a sequence of fossils showing reptiles evolving into birds or fish evolving into mammals.
Well, I was lucky enough to see an Archaeopteryx fossil as well as others that I don't remember the names of. And even you should know that no one but creationists think mammals evolved from fish. Once again you undermine your credibility.
Kleinman writes:
The mistake you make in this basic concept is trying to use gross anatomy to explain what is happening at the molecular (DNA evolutionary) level. That's like trying to explain quantum mechanics using classical physics.
Oh really? Can you remind me where I did that?
Your mistake is trying to use bacteria colonies from 2 narrow lab experiments as models for the evolution of all populations of complex, multicellular, sexually reproducing species. You ignore the fact that we can actually study these organisms and learn quite a lot from their gross anatomy, behavior and life histories, you know, biology.
Kleinman writes:
You need to get your fossil record interpretation in line with the hard mathematical evolutionary science.
Well, if you think that's important you should do that. I'm happy letting paleontologists report their observations. There is still a lot to learn and it's fine if you don't want to be part of that process, but I find it fascinating.
Kleinman writes:
But if you think I'm wrong, use your interpretation of the fossil record to explain the evolution of antimicrobial drug resistance and why cancer treatments fail.
Gosh, I'm surprised that you think someone would want to do that. That would be kind of like explaining the function of a table saw by talking about the pyramids in Egypt.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 347 by Kleinman, posted 10-11-2022 8:47 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 358 by Kleinman, posted 10-11-2022 2:23 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(2)
Message 360 of 2926 (899297)
10-11-2022 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 358 by Kleinman
10-11-2022 2:23 PM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
Kleinman writes:
Sorry, I thought you were aware that complex, multicellular, sexually reproducing species only transmit gametes to their offspring.
Sorry, I thought you were aware that those gametes contain DNA from the parent that combine with the DNA from the gamete from the other parent. The combined DNA from the parents form genes in chromosomes of the offspring and those genes carry many mutations from the ancestors of each parent as well as a set of new mutations.
Kleinman writes:
In the case of meiosis, you have to take into account whether particular alleles will be transferred to the offspring due to the effect of recombination.
Obviously.
Kleinman writes:
Yes, I think that the way biologists interpret the fossil record that it violates the laws of physics.
Which specific laws of physics do fossils violate and in what ways? Show us your work. Fossils exist, we can see them and touch them. Are you saying they formed by magic?
Since you didn't answer these questions I will ask again: What do you think fossils represent? What do you think the whole fossil record that has been discovered so far represents?
Kleinman writes:
You have about a billion human replications to account for the accumulation of the adaptive mutations that would give humans the improved reproductive fitness humans have over chimps.
A billion human replications, where does that number come from? I think your interpretation of humans having "improved reproductive fitness" over chimps is flawed. Each species is adapted to different selective pressures. Chimps adapted to a fairly specific habitat and humans became generalists.
Kleinman writes:
DNA evolution alone operating with a billion replications only allows for less than 5 adaptive mutations.
DNA evolution doesn't operate alone. Humans seem to have an average of about 50-100 new mutations in every single individual. You have failed to show any barrier to multiple adaptive mutations being passed on to descendants.
Kleinman writes:
So Taq grabs on to recombination but then has to claim that multiple adaptive alleles can fix simultaneously in a population. That is flat-out wrong and Taq knows it.
You have not demonstrated that they cannot.
Kleinman writes:
Do you want me to start posting links to papers that show that combination herbicides work to suppress the evolution of herbicide-resistant weeds, papers on combination pesticides work to suppress the evolution of pesticide-resistant insects, or combination rodenticides work to prevent the evolution rodenticide resistant rodents?
Please don't. We already know those things, but those are not normal selective pressures that affected the evolution of those species.
Kleinman writes:
There is an abundance of data and literature that show how the multiplication rule affects the biological evolution of complex, multicellular, sexually reproducing organisms
I am sure there is. There is also an abundance of data and literature showing how species adapt to non-lethal selection.
Kleinman writes:
Tanypteryx writes:
Oh really? Can you remind me where I did that?
You did this in this post with your claim about Archaeopteryx. You have no idea what the genetic sequence of this replicator was and have no idea what the genome of the parent or offspring was of this replicator. But somehow, you have convinced yourself that this is a fossil of a reptile turning into a bird.
As others have noted your mind reading skills suck. The only claim I made about Archaeopteryx is that I have seen a fossil. I made no claims or implied anything with regards to its genome.
Kleinman writes:
It may take a while but paleontology will go the way of astrology and phrenology. It all depends on how long these adherents want to waste their lives on this pseudo-science.
Well, it's clear that you will not be the one to overturn paleontology. You think fossils are magic.
Kleinman writes:
It's not a matter of wanting or not wanting. You can't explain the evolution of drug-resistant microbes or why cancer treatments fail using fossil tea-leaf reading.
You are the only person that I am aware of who suggest that you think that has ever been attempted. That seems like a classic example of a red herring.
Biologists really suck at explaining the physics and mathematics of biological evolution.
So far, you really suck at it too.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 358 by Kleinman, posted 10-11-2022 2:23 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 361 by Kleinman, posted 10-11-2022 5:45 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(1)
Message 363 of 2926 (899338)
10-12-2022 11:18 AM
Reply to: Message 361 by Kleinman
10-11-2022 5:45 PM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
At least my model correctly explains the Kishony and Lenski experiments and why combination therapy works for the treatment of HIV.
No, that's at most.
OK, I'm finished. You error has been pointed out multiple times now, but you continue to repeat it. In the end though your argument boils down to, "reptiles evolve into birds and fish evolve into mammals."
Biological science will continue to discover how life works but I don't expect that I will read about you revolutionizing our understanding of the process of biological evolution. It's too bad that you will not be able to help solve the crisis of the Sixth Extinction that threatens all life on our planet.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 361 by Kleinman, posted 10-11-2022 5:45 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 364 by Kleinman, posted 10-12-2022 11:46 AM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(2)
Message 365 of 2926 (899342)
10-12-2022 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 364 by Kleinman
10-12-2022 11:46 AM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
You sure are an expert at twisting other people's words and your desperation for approval from the "C team" says a lot.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 364 by Kleinman, posted 10-12-2022 11:46 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 367 by Kleinman, posted 10-12-2022 12:24 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 369 of 2926 (899346)
10-12-2022 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 367 by Kleinman
10-12-2022 12:24 PM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
Naw, that's "thank god I'm an atheist!"

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 367 by Kleinman, posted 10-12-2022 12:24 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 370 by Kleinman, posted 10-12-2022 12:54 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 373 of 2926 (899354)
10-12-2022 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 372 by Kleinman
10-12-2022 1:49 PM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
Perhaps you will come down off your throne and explain the physics and mathematics of the Kishony and Lenski experiments?
You seem desperate for the answer. You should be able to figure it out, it's only freshman level math.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 372 by Kleinman, posted 10-12-2022 1:49 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 374 by Kleinman, posted 10-12-2022 3:17 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(2)
Message 382 of 2926 (899377)
10-12-2022 8:44 PM
Reply to: Message 381 by AZPaul3
10-12-2022 8:10 PM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
I'd be interested in what your twisted logic comes up with.
For a guy who claims not to know what a Gish Gallop is he sure uses a lot of the same arguments, with his own twists, and even the exact same phrases as most the other creationists.
It's like they shot their wad a decade and more ago and none of them has been able to come up with new material.
Meanwhile on our side, I love the molecular work that's being done on insects the last couple years. Whole genome sequencing and gobs of grad students entering the field is starting to give us an unprecedented view of insect phylogeny, and lots of new studies of Odonates, too!

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 381 by AZPaul3, posted 10-12-2022 8:10 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 385 by Kleinman, posted 10-12-2022 10:21 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 387 of 2926 (899389)
10-12-2022 10:41 PM
Reply to: Message 385 by Kleinman
10-12-2022 10:21 PM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
Did you know that insects are complex, multicellular, sexual replicators?
Wow, really? Thanks for letting me know!
Too bad you are not as knowledgeable about evolution. You're still begging for the C team to explain high school freshman math to you and you can't even get anyone other than yourself to cite your papers. You should probably stick to counting bacteria.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 385 by Kleinman, posted 10-12-2022 10:21 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 389 by Kleinman, posted 10-13-2022 8:48 AM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 392 of 2926 (899419)
10-13-2022 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 390 by Kleinman
10-13-2022 8:56 AM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
Kleinman writes:
You must interpret the fossil record in the context of these mathematical facts, otherwise, you are just storytelling.
Finally! Yes, you should do that and report back to us.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 390 by Kleinman, posted 10-13-2022 8:56 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 394 by Kleinman, posted 10-13-2022 1:47 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
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