|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Choosing a faith | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
Tangle writes: Fear and hate are tow different things, but I do suggest that they both require intelligent consciousness. In case of fear I agree that it is largely and instinctive and necessary for survival, but it still does take a mental awareness of the situation to cause the fear. That of course is true for people and flies. But WHY? You need to explain why an emotions such as hate is evidence of god. (I use that term because that's what you mean - "god" doesn't mean "Christian God" it just means a god and there have been thousands of them, Christians don't own the term.) Anger is something that isn't instinctive but it is a conclusion based on circumstances and can easily vary from day to day in with the same circumstances. I see that as flowing from our consciousness and that consciousness is, like Descartes says fundamental to my existence.He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: I have not called you a liar but I note that you are not replying to my posts.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
GDR writes: OK. Emotions qre part of having consciousness, No, emotions are part of having a brain and nervous system. Many organisms - mice for example have been extensively studied - exhibit the same responses to stimuli as humans do using the same brain chemicals - like cortisol, serotonin, noradrenalin, corticosterone, dopamine etc. We are not in control of these hormones, they are released into our brains and make us feel frightened, stressed, happy, depressed etc. They are evolved response:stimuli reactions.
IMHO it is rational to conclude that consciousness is not likely to come from a root that is not conscious and intelligent. It however, is still belief. Now you're confusing consciousness with emotions. They are inter-related but different.
Fear and hate are tow different things, but I do suggest that they both require intelligent consciousness. In case of fear I agree that it is largely and instinctive and necessary for survival, but it still does take a mental awareness of the situation to cause the fear. That of course is true for people and flies. All our emotions are different and have different causes. Mental awareness arrives after the fact, the chemicals are released before we are aware of them. It's pure reflex. You know this yourself when someone shouts 'boo' we react, then think. Anger is something that isn't instinctive
Anger is absolutely instinctive. Read the neuroscience. It's controlled mostly by the amygdala and by cortisol. The executive, thinking, part of the brain, the pre-frontal cortex is less involved that you would imagine.
but it is a conclusion based on circumstances and can easily vary from day to day in with the same circumstances. I see that as flowing from our consciousness and that consciousness is, like Descartes says fundamental to my existence. The science is against you. As always.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
ringo writes:
What in your mind would be a realistic god? I'm not sure I agree with either of your assessments, but I worship a God that is represented by a man who was tortured, humiliated and killed on a Roman cross. Not a lot of sunshine and lollipops there. But it isn't just the name that's different. The god that you make up is all sunshine and lollipops; he loves everybody and wants to make their lives all snuggly and warm. On the other hand, the god that Phat makes up can't decide whether he loves us or hates us; he gleefully sets traps to "train" us and doesn't care if we are maimed or killed. But what does any of that have to do with reality? Why wouldn't you choose a realistic god? He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
|
GDR writes: I worship a God that is represented by a man who was tortured, humiliated and killed on a Roman cross. Just as a by-the-by, why do you think it necessary to worship anything?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
PaulK writes: I have not called you a liar but I note that you are not replying to my posts. Hi PaulI'll answer this out of sequence. I have been trying to stick to the idea of answering posts inn the order that they were posted. I am kinda behind as it is hard to keep up. I responded to about 6 posts yesterday and when I came home again there were 9 more. So either I'm just behind or possibly I missed one. At any rate I certainly have no problem with your posts. CheersGreg He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.1
|
Phat writes:
Well, it is my belief He did in Jesus. You could call it "What's In A Name" or perhaps "Will The Real God Please Stand Up".He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
AZPaul3 writes: Again, General Relativity. If a far off alien is walking in your direction then his time slice is off skew from yours. His "now" slice includes events you haven't experienced yet. The moving alien's now includes what you would see as your future. From the moving alien's perspective your batter's single-to-left has already happened while you still see him in the on-deck circle. And a single-to-left is exactly what you're going to see because that was the conscious effort to swing by the batter. In addition to exercising the batter's free will the event was recorded in time well before the conscious effort was made. It is amazing all right. I have read a couple of Brian Greene books which takes me pretty much and, and beyond, my conceptual knowledge. The study of time is amazing and I suggest that we have a long way to go. I suppose we have to consider time as being static in our the place where the event occurred. We talk about light from a star having taken a many light years to get here so even our reference to what we see we consider that the light we see was emitted all those years earlier. In so many ways it is just how we perceive things.He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
AZPaul3 writes: This says nothing about any gods nor does it say anything revealing about consciousness. Is this a smoke screen to cover something because it doesn't seem related to anything we're talking about? If she marvels at a brain trauma patient maintaining active human consciousness then she is not very experienced. She does have a PHD on brain imaging from Cambridge so I think she has a certain level of experience. The patient had zero control of any bodily functions and yet she remained conscious of all that was going on around her. Like I say I am no expert but she is and found it informative.He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
GDR writes: The thoughts can be the result of our life experiences but there might also be an undetectable external influence.nwr writes: However, there is no actual evidence of any external influence. But there is no real evidence of any other influences. You might in some cases know of a life experience that you think might have caused someone to do what they did, but you can't be sure as there is no real evidence.He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
You haven’t responded to or acknowledged Message 716 and I really think you need to take it on board.
If nothing else it might give you some understanding of why people might call you a liar.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
PaulK writes: It is also true that you find it absolutely necessary to prop up the reliability of the Bible without regard to the truth. Even the order in which the Gospels were written causes you to make obviously false claims. How many of Streeter’s arguments “go away” if you assume that Matthew was the first? None of them. Zero out of five. Yet you claimed that all of them would “go away” even after seeing those arguments. Firstly Streeter's proposal is very nearly 100 years old. There has been a considerable amount of work done by scholars since then. The diagram on this page presupposes Markan priority, and as near as I can tell is consistent with Streeter.
Four Document Hypothesis Now we can look at the Griesbach hypotheses which presupposes Matthean priority. There is no need of "Q". Essentially Matthew fills that function. Two Gospel Hypotheses As you can see, there is no need for "Q" and this was the view held by all the early church fathers. I would add to that the point that Luke, IMHO, was not just using Matthew but was also, as a companion of Paul, using Paul as a source as well as the eye witnesses in Jerusalem. Also of course, Mark travelled with Peter and would have used him as a source and again the disciples in Jerusalem. I do acknowledge that it is a minority position, but after reading David Alan Black's book I am confident that it gives the best explanation. I could be wrong. I apologise for not answering this sooner. I must have meant to get back to it and forgot.He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
PaulK writes: I hate to break it to you, but nobody tries to use gaps in our knowledge to show that science exists. It was kinda tongue in cheek, but you might go back and look the full discussion. It was about an area that science might and might not fill.He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
AZPaulK writes: Right, so if you can't detect it then it's not there. Of course! Majik! Why didn't I think of that? Can't find a source when you need one? Just make one up! Undetectable external influence. Voilà! Who needs evidence!He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
GDR writes:
For one thing, "a" god doesn't make much sense. If you must postulate a "superior intelligence", an advanced alien civilization would be more likely.
What in your mind would be a realistic god? GDR writes:
The death of Jesus is hardly relevant. The CURRENT behaviour of your god is all forgivey. I worship a God that is represented by a man who was tortured, humiliated and killed on a Roman cross. Not a lot of sunshine and lollipops there."Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg. What's going on? Where are all the friends I had? It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong. Give me back, give me back my Leningrad." -- Leningrad Cowboys
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024