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EvC Forum ⇒ Social and Religious Issues ⇒ Faith and Belief ⇒

The Problem of Suffering

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Phat
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From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
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Message 87 of 107 (898533)
09-25-2022 3:52 PM 		Reply to: Message 85 by ringo
09-25-2022 3:50 PM

Re: The Problem Of Evil
ringo writes:
​
What has that got to do with the efficiency of the species?
I'll address this question later. Off to work.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by ringo, posted 09-25-2022 3:50 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied
  
Phat
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Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1

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Message 89 of 107 (898537)
09-25-2022 3:58 PM 		Reply to: Message 75 by Greatest I am
09-25-2022 3:16 PM

Re: The Problem Of Evil
I don't believe in Dualism, however. Like Ellis Potter, (former Buddhist) I am a Trinitarian Monotheist.
3 Theories Of Everything by Ellis Potter
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Greatest I am, posted 09-25-2022 3:16 PM Greatest I am has not replied
  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1

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Message 94 of 107 (898621)
09-27-2022 11:04 AM 		Reply to: Message 92 by Greatest I am
09-25-2022 4:03 PM

Dualism or Double Standards?
4% of what?
​
GIA writes:
​
How would you apply --- though shalt not kill --- in a real situation, --- if killing as a concept is not dualistic, with an extreme evil end, and another end where killing it might be ok.
​
I would apply it personally as just that: Don't Kill! This leads to many questions. After all, armies kill. Police kill. But I don't understand your concept of dualism. What precisely do you mean? It sounds to me more like a double standard. Ask any conscientious objector.

Edited by Phat, : added more thoughts

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Greatest I am, posted 09-25-2022 4:03 PM Greatest I am has replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by Greatest I am, posted 09-27-2022 12:55 PM Phat has replied
  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1

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Message 97 of 107 (898637)
09-27-2022 12:56 PM 		Reply to: Message 96 by Greatest I am
09-27-2022 12:55 PM

Re: Dualism or Double Standards?
are you referring to the trolley car dilemma?
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Greatest I am, posted 09-27-2022 12:55 PM Greatest I am has not replied
  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1

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Message 102 of 107 (898654)
09-27-2022 3:20 PM 		Reply to: Message 85 by ringo
09-25-2022 3:50 PM

Predicting Our Destiny
ringo writes:
​
Don't be stupid. Look up "disservice".
It means harm or a harmful action.
​
Thus, you said:
It would be a disservice to evolution to try to predict where it will go.
Si in other words, it would be harmful to try and predict where evolution will go. Evolution is not a living "it". Humans by nature try and predict things...like the weather, a political race, or the future effects of harmful chemicals. We are trying to determine our future. That in and of itself is not harmful.
​
In addition, I do not believe that the future of the universe is random. It has a definite destiny.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by ringo, posted 09-25-2022 3:50 PM ringo has replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by AZPaul3, posted 09-27-2022 3:36 PM Phat has replied
 Message 107 by ringo, posted 09-27-2022 10:07 PM Phat has not replied
  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1

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Message 105 of 107 (898663)
09-27-2022 4:03 PM 		Reply to: Message 104 by AZPaul3
09-27-2022 3:36 PM

Re: Predicting Our Destiny
If so, will both matter and energy cease to exist? (Consensuswise of course)
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by AZPaul3, posted 09-27-2022 3:36 PM AZPaul3 has replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by AZPaul3, posted 09-27-2022 5:01 PM Phat has not replied
  
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