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Author | Topic: Should we teach both evolution and religion in school? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
dwise1 Member Posts: 5949 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Message 2042
DWise1 writes:
I have not forgotten you. I ended in the hospital and will be back with you as soon as possible. Merry Belated Christmas!
Of course the first conclusion we all jumped to as to what you were in the hospital for ... but that's neither here nor there nor even anywhere near the topic. The main thing is that you were able to get through it and out of the hospital. I understand you to be of retirement age as I am. My brother-in-law is a decade older than I am. He got rather sick for about a week towards the end of December and is only now recovering from it. I shared with him my own experience that the main problem with getting old is that if we get sick or injured it takes so long to heal, if ever. So work on getting well. Along those lines, I would suggest that you do not waste your time or energy continuing your efforts to discredit yourself and your own religion with mindless sermonizing. We've all heard that stuff before and, indeed, some of us could write far better sales pitches for that pig-in-a-poke (AKA "bill of goods"). Give that a rest since it would be a complete waste of your energy which is currently in short supply. Instead, concentrate on discussing the topic. You have left so many questions unanswered that you still need to address -- indeed, your switch to blatant preaching could only be interpreted as a failed attempt to avoid those questions or, as I pondered in my Message 2033, feeding your own persecution fantasy by deliberately provoking negative reactions in order to return to your church to complain how much we "hate God" (whereas the truth is that we just hate it when you [pl] pull that stupid crap). Please just turn your attention to that discussion. My most primary question for you, which I have had to repeat and which you have never even tried to answer, was last repeated in my Message 2032:
DWise1 writes: And you still have not answer the most basic questions your implied offer to; from my Message 2017:
DWise1 writes: EWolf writes:
Yes, you did still never answer my question. Though I'm sure that it's entirely beyond your ability to answer, since you don't know the answer yourself:
... unless any of you may have any more unanswered questions. DWise1 writes: Dunnage writes: Yes, the student should be made aware of and familiarized with the widespread presence of the evolutionary mindset. Just what the hell are you talking about? What "evolutionary mindset"? No such thing exists any more than there's an "electronics mindset" or a "muffin method mindset." All you're doing is repeating a fake bogeyman that was created to scare you. If you truly believe that there is such a thing, then you must present it and your evidence for it, and then be ready to discuss it. You keep blathering about this "evolution mindset", but you never say what it is supposed to be. Do you even know yourself? I doubt that very much. You are obviously just vomiting the BS lies that creationists keep feeding you, and then you return to eat your own vomit as a dog does. Which reminds me, you really should try to get around to reading the Bible. So then, ¡yet again!, just exactly what is this "evolution mindset" you keep blathering about? What is it based on? The rest of Message 2017 brings up several other questions raised by your bald assertions, a few of which I shall list here:
These are but a few questions that need to be addressed. They are very reasonable basic questions which promote discussion (whereas bald assertions only serve to shut down discussin). They are also basic questions that I have never ever seen a creationist attempt to answer in the four decades I have been studying "creation science." Indeed, creationists instead do everything they can to avoid those questions. My expectations of you are extremely low. Please surprise me.
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5949 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Message 2042
​ DWise1 writes:
I have not forgotten you. I ended in the hospital and will be back with you as soon as possible. Merry Belated Christmas!
Of course the first conclusion we all jumped to as to what you were in the hospital for ... but that's neither here nor there nor even anywhere near the topic. The main thing is that you were able to get through it and out of the hospital.​ I understand you to be of retirement age as I am. My brother-in-law is a decade older than I am. He got rather sick for about a week towards the end of December and is only now recovering from it. I shared with him my own experience that the main problem with getting old is that if we get sick or injured it takes so long to heal, if ever. So work on getting well. ​ Along those lines, I would suggest that you do not waste your time or energy continuing your efforts to discredit yourself and your own religion with mindless sermonizing. We've all heard that stuff before and, indeed, some of us could write far better sales pitches for that pig-in-a-poke (AKA "bill of goods"). Give that a rest since it would be a complete waste of your energy which is currently in short supply. ​ Instead, concentrate on discussing the topic. You have left so many questions unanswered that you still need to address -- indeed, your switch to blatant preaching could only be interpreted as a failed attempt to avoid those questions or, as I pondered in my Message 2033, feeding your own persecution fantasy by deliberately provoking negative reactions in order to return to your church to complain how much we "hate God" (whereas the truth is that we just hate it when you [pl] pull that stupid crap). Please just turn your attention to that discussion. ​ My most primary question for you, which I have had to repeat and which you have never even tried to answer, was last repeated in my Message 2032: ​ DWise1 writes:
​ And you still have not answer the most basic questions your implied offer to; from my Message 2017:​ DWise1 writes:
​ EWolf writes:
Yes, you did still never answer my question. Though I'm sure that it's entirely beyond your ability to answer, since you don't know the answer yourself: ... unless any of you may have any more unanswered questions.​ DWise1 writes:
​ Dunnage writes:
​ Yes, the student should be made aware of and familiarized with the widespread presence of the evolutionary mindset.Just what the hell are you talking about? What "evolutionary mindset"? No such thing exists any more than there's an "electronics mindset" or a "muffin method mindset." ​ All you're doing is repeating a fake bogeyman that was created to scare you. If you truly believe that there is such a thing, then you must present it and your evidence for it, and then be ready to discuss it. You keep blathering about this "evolution mindset", but you never say what it is supposed to be. Do you even know yourself? I doubt that very much. You are obviously just vomiting the BS lies that creationists keep feeding you, and then you return to eat your own vomit as a dog does. ​ Which reminds me, you really should try to get around to reading the Bible. So then, ¡yet again!, just exactly what is this "evolution mindset" you keep blathering about? What is it based on? The rest of Message 2017 brings up several other questions raised by your bald assertions, a few of which I shall list here:
These are but a few questions that need to be addressed. ​ They are very reasonable basic questions which promote discussion (whereas bald assertions only serve to shut down discussin). They are also basic questions that I have never ever seen a creationist attempt to answer in the four decades I have been studying "creation science." Indeed, creationists instead do everything they can to avoid those questions. ​ My expectations of you are extremely low. Please surprise me.
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5949 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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Jessica H. Christ! Don't you understand anything?
So much of your BS to respond to. So it will take multiple replies.
Only one of the diametrically opposed Creation and evolutionary doctrines may be taught as fact. Although Biblical Creation truth is normally taught in church, isn’t it the responsibility of our educational institutions to support it? Truth supports truth.
I hope that you will reply this time. Or will you still flee?
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5949 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
I'll start right off by repeating yet again one of my questions that you have never answered:
DWise1 writes: Why do you advocate that the government should be compelled to impose indoctrination in some arbitrarily chosen religion on school children in direct violation of their parents' right to choose the religious tradition to raise their children in? If you wish to falsely claim that you have done no such thing, then support your false claim! Refer to my Message 2015 again for the points about education that you would need to address. Now to address your latest advocating that the government conduct such indoctrination.
Where there is war there are battles and the battles for the truth of our beginning are intense! The fight is over which is to be considered as fact. The effort to teach evolutionary doctrine to the coming generation as fact directly opposes not only the church that informs of the Biblical word of God by which we all live, ... What the hell are you babbling about?
More to come, especially concerning your nonsense about the Declaration of Independence. Though I guess you're going to ground yet again to avoid reality. That doesn't help anybody.
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5949 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
In the meantime, here are some more thoughts about the contrast between education and indoctrination and how indoctrination impacts creationists so negatively, such that:
It is absolutely imperative that creationists be educated in evolution in order to be able to fight it. As it now stands, creationists know nothing about evolution because they have been indoctrinated with lies instead have having been educated. As a result, they are unable to explain or defend creationism. Remember (as discussed in my Message 2064 and Message 2066) that:
Before I had given much thought about the difference between education and indoctrination, I had a very telling online exchange with a creationist (I'm sure it was on CompuServe). It was so painfully obvious that he didn't know what he was talking about regarding evolution that I tried to encourage him to study evolution so that he could mount a better offense against it. He absolutely refused to do so because "Learning education would require me to believe in it!" That is a classic consequence of viewing learning as indoctrination, as well as very strong motivation to never ever convert to his mind-narrowing religion. Now consider this Scripture (well, it should be included):
quote: Your avowed enemy is evolution (or rather your grossly bizaare misrepresentation of it, or whatever it is you call "evolution"), yet you are completely ignorant of it. As per Verse 32, you might still have a chance so long as you know yourself, but you don't. You are also greatly ignorant of yourself. Therefore, you are certain in every battle to be in peril, as per Verse 33. And also a non-scroll source, the Governor of Mississippi, circa 1990, give or take a few years, quoted here from memory from a radio newscast at the time. He was explaining why he was campaigning so hard for education reform in his state:
quote: But creationists haven't learned that simple lesson, cleaving to ignorance as if their very souls depended on their ignorance. Yet another reason to stay far away from your religion. That is why I have been asking you those questions which you must be able to answer in order to know your enemy and to know yourself! Yet again:
Those are the questions that you must be able to answer, or at least be able to take a serious attempt at. But you cannot. Therefore, in every battle you will be in constant peril. And of course there's still that other question that you also keep dodging:
Why do you advocate that the government should be compelled to impose indoctrination in some arbitrarily chosen religion on school children in direct violation of their parents' right to choose the religious tradition to raise their children in? If you wish to falsely claim that you have done no such thing, then support your false claim!
Please come out of hiding and address the issues. At least try to answer the questions. Or are you conceding that you have absolutely nothing? Please come out of hiding and address the issues. At least try to answer the questions. And please stop trying to sabotage the ability of young creationists to join the battle against evolution by preventing them from learning about it. Here is the testimonial of one such young person who I think has become an atheist because of creationism:
quote: That's what "arming them with ammo against evolution" is: just handing them blanks. Thank you for your continual and steadfast support for the growth and spread of atheism.
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5949 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
So you want to get rid of evolution. Though you never told us why, which is not surprising since you obviously have to idea yourself.
But now you want to also get rid of most other sciences like geology, seismology, archeology, astronomy, astrophysics, biology, meteorology, many parts of physics, etc, all because of a non-requirement that they be able to reproduce everything. Why impose such a non-requirement on science? Applying the same criterion, I'd like to see you reproduce key parts of your religion including the Parting of the Red Sea, the feeding of the masses (loaves and fish), a few Resurrections. Why do you get to impose that non-requirement on science and not on your own religion? For that matter, why did you only impose it explicitly to one and only one science (actually, not a separate science but rather a major part of the science of biology), evolution? Why do you have such a hard-on for evolution? We've asked you that question repeatedly, but you always refuse to answer. Do you even know yourself? As a child were you frightened by an old bald man with a long beard? What's going on with you? Look, the simple truth is that creationists are lying to you. And they are grooming you to also be a liar. And they are grooming you to enable them to groom schoolchildren into becoming lying creationists. One creationist lie is to redefine science -- that's the one you have just repeated here and it's an old one, decades old. Another creationist lie that you have swallowed is that science is atheistic and anti-God so you must destroy science education -- though many creationists will waffle on that one because they love their computers and flush toilets too much. I have asked you important questions that you have ignored: from when you last posted (Message 2061 nearly a year ago, I repeated those questions in my Message 2066 and Message 2068. I have even bumped those questions repeatedly for you to answer. They're not "gotcha" questions nor are they any attempt to trap you. Rather, they are intended to get you to think and to finally tell us what no creationist can (because they do not know it themselves), what no creationist could ever dare, what terrifies all creationists: WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? Your own refusal to answer those questions, along with the same refusal from all creationists, can lead to only one conclusion: you are promoting lies and deception in order to serve your god. And we all know from Christian doctrine the only Christian god to be served through lies and deception.
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