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Author | Topic: Rebuttal To Creationists - "Since We Can't Directly Observe Evolution..." | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
Do you now understand how ridiculous your question is?
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 363 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Theodoric:Do you think that humans and chimpanzees have the same population size?
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
Did I say anything like that? Why would you ask that unless you were trolling?
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 363 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Theodoric:How many beneficial mutations do humans have compared to chimpanzees to account for their population difference? PaulK says all you have to do is add them up.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Kleinman writes:
Living things are open systems (plenty of energy coming in), so conservation isn't really relevant. So try applying that principle to biological evolutionary competition and see what you get."Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg. What's going on? Where are all the friends I had? It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong. Give me back, give me back my Leningrad." -- Leningrad Cowboys
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 4.5
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How many beneficial mutations do humans have compared to chimpanzees to account for their population difference? This is like asking how many oranges there are in a basket of apples.Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2
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I don't see where he said anything like this.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3
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quote: This is a silly question. Not least because it is incredibly vague.If you mean the number of beneficial mutations that have fixed since the common ancestor in each lineage I don’t know of a good way to tell. The number of mutations might be estimated, some might be identifiable as beneficial, but I doubt that all would be. Population size generates more mutations but it also makes it harder to fix them - and the current human advantage there would have been a lot less even 1000 years ago. Anyway, it hardly matters. Are you going to explain why microevolutionary events cannot add up to macroevolution?
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5952 Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
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Living things are open systems (plenty of energy coming in), so conservation isn't really relevant. I also could see him maneuvering towards that old creationist canard, "evolution violates thermodynamics". A basic problem with that one is that evolution is primarily just the net result of life doing what life naturally does. So if evolution is supposed to violate thermodynamics, then so does life so, according to creationists, life should be impossible. And yet ... there it is!
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5952 Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
Did I say anything like that? Why would you ask that unless you were trolling? He's a creationist. Creationists don't understand what they're talking about, but rather they mainly are just following a script. When I was hanging out with the Jesus Freaks circa 1970 I saw a lot of those scripts ... and my own experience with creationists ever since then confirms that they are still using those same old stupid scripts. The only difference is that the IDiot scripts are a lot fancier and filled with more fancy terminology and references to obscure math, the better to deceive us with. ID is still nothing but bullshit, but it's a higher grade of bullshit than the old standard creationist stuff. Makes it harder to wash away with the hose.
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 363 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Kleinman:You are being sloppy in your physics. The energy has to be useful to the replicator otherwise the Sahara Desert and the inside of a volcano would be overwhelmed with living things. Try something simpler like applying conservation of energy to the Lenski experiment. What are the energy sources available to the bacteria?
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 363 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Kleinman:Are you implying that there are no beneficial mutations in all the genetic differences between humans and chimps? If so, why are there over 7 billion humans and only about 300,000 chimps on earth? Why do humans have greater reproductive fitness than chimps in this biological evolutionary competition?
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 363 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Kleinman:Perhaps it is silly to ask you a question you can't answer. Try this one, how many beneficial mutations are occurring in the Kishony experiment and how many of these beneficial mutations are fixed in the population of that experiment?
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 4.5
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Are you implying that there are no beneficial mutations in all the genetic differences between humans and chimps? No. Rather, I am saying that the comparison is meaningless. What is beneficial for a human might not be beneficial for a chimp. What is beneficial is a relative evaluation, depending on the way of life of the species where the mutation shows up. Chimps and humans have different ways of living. And, by the way, those differences evolved.
If so, why are there over 7 billion humans and only about 300,000 chimps on earth? That's not relevant to anything. You are making false assumptions about evolution. Yes, humans make for better humans than would chimps. But chimps make for better chimps than would humans. You cannot directly compare them like that.Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Kleinman writes:
It is.
The energy has to be useful to the replicator... Kleinman writes:
They are.
... otherwise the Sahara Desert and the inside of a volcano would be overwhelmed with living things. Kleinman writes:
Glucose. What are the energy sources available to the bacteria?"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg. What's going on? Where are all the friends I had? It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong. Give me back, give me back my Leningrad." -- Leningrad Cowboys
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