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Author | Topic: Anti-theist | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
No you're not. You have mocked evidence, rationality and skepticism far too often for anybody to believe that.
I am pro-thinking... Phat writes:
Everybody has an emotional need for self-validation. The difference is that humanists have to get it from reality instead of from some spook. humanists have an emotional need for self-validation."Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg. What's going on? Where are all the friends I had? It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong. Give me back, give me back my Leningrad." -- Leningrad Cowboys
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
No, we mention the apologists all the time.
you get all worked up over the Holy Spirit being a Monster yet never mention the other spirits that seduce, lie, and beguile humanity. Phat writes:
I don't care about being "ultimately right". I'd just like to get you to THINK once in a while.
perhaps ringo is ultimately right. Phat writes:
There's no need to disprove Jesus, just like there's no need to disprove leprechauns. The default is they don't exist. Again, the "fervor" is to get you to THINK.
​I was shaken by the fervor that all of you had in disproving Jesus. ( which you failed to do, by the way.) Phat writes:
You "observe" what you want to observe, what your lying apologists say you should observe. But it's all subjective.
I believe in the whole concept of spiritual war because I had subjective observation of such a realm in my own past and because I even see it now on days when I channel my inner asshole. Phat writes:
Because we try to be objective - and objectively it's all bullshit. The difference is that you liberals don't see it, disbelieve it, and don't in fact care. And it has nothing to do with being liberal - except that liberals are more likely to THINK. You like the conservatives because they encourage you to be brainless."Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg. What's going on? Where are all the friends I had? It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong. Give me back, give me back my Leningrad." -- Leningrad Cowboys
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Nor will any human. We can assign meaning. We can't "discover" it.
Raw intelligence requires humans. No robot will ever figure out the meaning of the universe. Phat writes:
The idea of Christianity that I am expressing comes straight from the Bible, straight from Jesus Himself, according to the only evidence of Him that we have. You're mocking the Bible and you're mocking all we know about Jesus.
I'm mocking your idea of Christianity. Phat writes:
So you put yourself on an equal footing with the Gospel writers?
You mock me for making Him up, but the book itself was made up. Phat writes:
That was the standard that Charles Manson used. I think we're going to use a higher standard.
The only standard we should be held to is the integrity of what we make up. Phat writes:
I started thinking because thinking was the right thing to do. It's a good starting point in almost any situation. Why do you mock thinking?
You never dared to do it.
ringp writes:
Your religion that you were brought up in was too strict. That's why you started thinking and wormed your way out of it. How would you know that? Phat writes:
Following a standard is not "too strict". It's a minimum requirement.
The reason I know your religious upbringing was too strict is that even now you insist I follow the standard. Phat writes:
I KNOW you don't. You deny the book constantly and put your own musings above it.
You cling to the integrity of the book and claim that I don't. Phat writes:
So far you seem to have a grasp of the obvious.
So let me get this straight. The book was written by humans of an earlier warring time. They described a God who commanded them to sacrifice animals and kill every one of their enemy. Jesus comes along and claims that the goats refused to do what He said and thus will also be harshly dealt with. Phat writes:
There is no Triune God.
You thought your way beyond both characteristics of the Triune God. Phat writes:
"The Spook" refers to every aspect of your magical God, including your made-up version of Jesus.
The Spirit, which you fondly call the Spook... Phat writes:
You continue to mock logic, reason and reality. OF COURSE they come before your fantasies. ... is also dropped in favor of logic, reason, and reality. Am I right so far? (A bunch of your quotes are messed up here.)
Phat writes:
No, you said that MY standards are illogical. We were not talking about the idea of God AT ALL. It's your standards that are the illogical idea.
ringo writes:
All I'm trying to show is that the idea of God is not illogical. Show how they are illogical. Try again. Show how something I SAID is illogical.​ "Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg. What's going on? Where are all the friends I had? It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong. Give me back, give me back my Leningrad." -- Leningrad Cowboys
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Never mind putting words in my mouth. Just deal with the words I wrote.
in other words... Phat writes:
I have no idea where that came from. When have I said anything about organized religion? ... you are collectively against the idea of organized religion.. (And by the way, I can't "collectively" do anything by myself. Do you just throw in random words?)
Phat writes:
I am quite well able to deal with such a concept. YOU, on the other hand, can't seem to grasp the incongruity of a "creator of all seen and unseen" who DIDN'T create evil.
you include the focus on a Creator of all seen and unseen. You are unable to deal with such an idea... Phat writes:
I will debate relativism up one side and down the other if you just stop running away.
... so you throw relativism into the equation.... Phat writes:
I will also debate whether or not your God is made up. Why do you keep running away?
... and respond "which God" as if to prove a point that everyone makes up God anyway. Phat writes:
Indeed I do. Why don't you discuss it instead of just dismissing it?
There you go again with relativism. Phat writes:
I don't see people worshipping YOUR made-up God either. Most of the Christians I know would not like the way you trash the Bible.
The day I see people worshipping a Leprechaun is the day I explain to you that all other "gods" are imitators. Phat writes:
Note that your Jesus isn't even on a cereal box. (How many feet can you get in your mouth at once?)
Until then, the only leprechaun I ever see is on a cereal box! Phat writes:
You observed based on what your lying apologists told you.
I observed based on where my experiences led me. Phat writes:
Tu quoque (a logical fallacy, roughly equivalent to the schoolyard, "I know you are but what am i?") Your apologists are demonstrably liars. My invitation to discuss that fact is ongoing.
If apologists are all liars, so are all mythicists. Phat writes:
I don't need you to ease up on me. The breeze from your swings-and-misses might muss up my hair a bit but otherwise, your "arguments" are no challenge. Stop running away. I'm getting old. I can't chase you as fast as when I was young.
Quit blaming your problems on conservatives and I might consider easing up on you. Phat writes:
So that more money can be stolen by the Trumps and their minions. That IS brainless of you.
ringo writes:
More likely, we are encouraged to be heartless so that more money can be earned. You like the conservatives because they encourage you to be brainless. Phat writes:
You surrender your brains to lies you have been told about God.
We surrender our brains to God.quote: Phat writes:
Then He's wasting His time. If He shows up knocking at your door don't worry. He didn't come for your money or your brain"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg. What's going on? Where are all the friends I had? It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong. Give me back, give me back my Leningrad." -- Leningrad Cowboys
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You need to SHOW that it's illogical. FYI, "illogical" doesn't just mean that you don't like it. Show the actual fallacies. The only other thing I can think of is when you compare Jesus with Leprechauns. That is most definitely illogical."Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg. What's going on? Where are all the friends I had? It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong. Give me back, give me back my Leningrad." -- Leningrad Cowboys
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Percy writes:
I agree. I submit that Phat is making just as much sense. But I am talking TO Phat, not FOR Phat. It doesn't really matter if he doesn't understand.Edited by ringo, : Corrected attribution. "Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg. What's going on? Where are all the friends I had? It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong. Give me back, give me back my Leningrad." -- Leningrad Cowboys
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Are you having trouble getting AZPaul to talk? That doesn't sound plausible to me. All you should have to do is sit back and wait a minute.
AZPaul3 writes:
To get you to talk for one thing. So, what's the point, Phat? Phat writes:
I have said it before: I know your God better than you do. I would submit that you dont know "my god". Neither does ringo. Discuss.
Phat writes:
Their definition is irrelevant. Their definition is bound to be self-serving, like the mosquito's definition of evil or the parasitic worm's definition of evil. The only definition of evil that matters to us is our self-serving definition.
Note that you admit that the hypothetical aliens are superior. What if they have an evolved definition of evil? Phat writes:
That what-if doesn't work with an almighty God. He should be able to stop our depredations without smiting us. What if they claim that by smiting us, they are saving the universe from our eventual attempt at exploration, politics, and spreading our germs and memes through the cosmos?"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg. What's going on? Where are all the friends I had? It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong. Give me back, give me back my Leningrad." -- Leningrad Cowboys
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Causes thinking people to conclude that He is evil. If God exists, the fact that He doesn't save every baby, sick person, or hurt person Evil is as evil does - and also as evil doesn't do. If He stands and watches somebody drown when He has the power to pull them out, He is evil.
Phat writes:
God said He creates evil in Isaiah 45:7. Matthew 25 just confirms that Jesus endorses sending people to eternal fire.
... you hint that He is evil also based on Matthew 25. Phat writes:
That's totally irrelevant to this discussion.
You DO realize that death is just another part of life, don't you? Phat writes:
He certainly is. If anybody has the power to prevent evil from happening and they just stand by and watch it happen, they are eivil. If He's not part of the solution, He's part of the problem.
God is under no obligation to do anything for ringo or Phat. Phat writes:
I stopped believing because of arguments like yours.
No wonder you stopped believing. Phat writes:
Well, DUH! You expected God to be nicer. And yet you berate me for making up a nicer version of Jesus. You pretend to believe in a god but you have to make up a sunshine-and-lollipops god that even YOU can swallow. You no more of a believer than I am. You cherry-pick Bible verses when it suits you but you can't stomach the Biblical God either."Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg. What's going on? Where are all the friends I had? It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong. Give me back, give me back my Leningrad." -- Leningrad Cowboys
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
How could there be an atheist apologist? There are no doctrines to apologize for. ... the atheist apologist, Alex O'Conner.Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
That's what i said. There are no doctrines to defend. Phat writes:
In this instance, I am using the word as synonymous with "defense of".. How could there be an atheist apologist? There are no doctrines to apologize for.Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
How about learning new stuff BEFORE you blather on about it as if you DID know what you were talking about?
I like learning new stuff... Phat writes:
But you refuse to discuss apologetics. Study of apologetics...Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
How does that prevent you from defending the arguments? You dismiss all of them as goobers before I can defend the arguments.Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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