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Author Topic:   Anti-theist
Phat
Member
Posts: 16346
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 811 of 822 (898052)
09-18-2022 9:09 AM
Reply to: Message 810 by AZPaul3
09-16-2022 4:27 PM


Re: Hatred Of Thinking?
AZ writes:
I hate ANY version of a supernatural majikal sky monster you insist we all worship.
ANY version? Note how you have concluded that anything supernatural, if "it" exists, is a monster. Spoken like a true antitheist. What if, on the other hand, it was a superior race of aliens? What if it was simply a giant asteroid on its journey to end life on earth? I could see the rationale in regard to the asteroid. It would be neither good nor evil...it would simply be "universe science".
But about the hypothetical aliens:
  • what would be their intent? Consuming humans? Taking over authoritatively despite our pleas and warnings? Assuming they demonstrated power beyond our capabilities, would they de-facto be classified as evil if we could not reason with them?

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
    H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 810 by AZPaul3, posted 09-16-2022 4:27 PM AZPaul3 has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 812 by AZPaul3, posted 09-18-2022 9:40 AM Phat has replied

      
    AZPaul3
    Member
    Posts: 7020
    From: Phoenix
    Joined: 11-06-2006
    Member Rating: 2.9


    Message 812 of 822 (898055)
    09-18-2022 9:40 AM
    Reply to: Message 811 by Phat
    09-18-2022 9:09 AM


    Re: Hatred Of Thinking?
    What if, on the other hand, it was a superior race of aliens?
    WTF you talking about? What if what was a superior race of aliens?
    what would be their intent? Consuming humans? Taking over authoritatively despite our pleas and warnings?
    Are you having a stroke?
    Assuming they demonstrated power beyond our capabilities, would they de-facto be classified as evil if we could not reason with them?
    What?
    If it does evil it is evil. Your god does evil. It is evil. If superior aliens do evil then they are evil and we will classify them so.
    No brainer.
    So, what's the point, Phat?

    Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 811 by Phat, posted 09-18-2022 9:09 AM Phat has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 813 by Phat, posted 09-18-2022 9:49 AM AZPaul3 has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 16346
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 813 of 822 (898056)
    09-18-2022 9:49 AM
    Reply to: Message 812 by AZPaul3
    09-18-2022 9:40 AM


    Re: Hatred Of Thinking?
    WTF you talking about? What if what was a superior race of aliens?
    The "authority" from the sky. In fact, what if Jesus was actually one of these same aliens? What if the legends were true and He communicated with His Father? It would be like Princess Leia in Star Wars sending a message to Obi-Wan Kenobi. "Help us, Obi-Wan. You're our only hope". So what if these sky aliens were of unknown intent? What if Obi-Wan represented the good or noble side of "the Force". (which some geeks believe in much more readily than Jesus! )
    So, what's the point, Phat?
    To get you to talk for one thing. You are the one who insisted that any "Being" from the sky that was majical was evil.
    If it does evil it is evil. Your god does evil. It is evil.
    First off, I would submit that you dont know "my god". Neither does ringo. All that you two have done is read a book.
    If superior aliens do evil then they are evil and we will classify them so.
    Note that you admit that the hypothetical aliens are superior. What if they have an evolved definition of evil? What if they claim that by smiting us, they are saving the universe from our eventual attempt at exploration, politics, and spreading our germs and memes through the cosmos?

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
    H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 812 by AZPaul3, posted 09-18-2022 9:40 AM AZPaul3 has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 814 by AZPaul3, posted 09-18-2022 10:18 AM Phat has replied
     Message 820 by ringo, posted 09-18-2022 3:59 PM Phat has replied

      
    AZPaul3
    Member
    Posts: 7020
    From: Phoenix
    Joined: 11-06-2006
    Member Rating: 2.9


    Message 814 of 822 (898059)
    09-18-2022 10:18 AM
    Reply to: Message 813 by Phat
    09-18-2022 9:49 AM


    Re: Hatred Of Thinking?
    You are the one who insisted that any "Being" from the sky that was majical was evil.
    Wow. Reading comprehension, Phat.
    Try re-reading that post again. Message 810
    First off, I would submit that you dont know "my god".
    Not in specifics, like what's its eye color or the cologne it favors, but the fact you assign it the status of god is enough. It's evil.
    Note that you admit that the hypothetical aliens are superior.
    What shit? I did no such thing.
    What if they ... What if they ...
    What if your what if's are BS and I don't care?

    Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 813 by Phat, posted 09-18-2022 9:49 AM Phat has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 815 by Phat, posted 09-18-2022 10:25 AM AZPaul3 has replied
     Message 817 by Phat, posted 09-18-2022 10:35 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 16346
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 815 of 822 (898061)
    09-18-2022 10:25 AM
    Reply to: Message 814 by AZPaul3
    09-18-2022 10:18 AM


    Re: Hatred Of Thinking?
    What if your what if's are BS and I don't care?
    then you need sleep. Take a nap and come back when rested. You seem to care enough about the train wreck that is climate change, yet you say that you are too old to care. People have no idea what's coming. We can't even get along now....it will be worse later. Humans failed with God. They are now failing without god.
    Time for a smart world leader to take over. Or not.

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
    H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 814 by AZPaul3, posted 09-18-2022 10:18 AM AZPaul3 has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 818 by AZPaul3, posted 09-18-2022 10:41 AM Phat has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 16346
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 816 of 822 (898062)
    09-18-2022 10:31 AM
    Reply to: Message 807 by dwise1
    09-16-2022 3:12 PM


    Re: Hatred Of Thinking?
    I watched parts of jojo rabbit thanks to you. It was a very good movie.
    Now, here's the scary part. If Trump were smart, he would pretend to get saved and change his whole demeanor. They would elect him in a landslide! The Beast would be back at the helm, just in time to take on Russia and China.
    I don't think he is that bright, however. Bring on the next contender.

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
    H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 807 by dwise1, posted 09-16-2022 3:12 PM dwise1 has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 16346
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 817 of 822 (898063)
    09-18-2022 10:35 AM
    Reply to: Message 814 by AZPaul3
    09-18-2022 10:18 AM


    Re: Hatred Of Thinking?
    AZEarlyBird writes:
    Wow. Reading comprehension, Phat.

    Try re-reading that post again. Message 810
    OK.
    810 writes:
    I hate ANY version of a supernatural majikal sky monster you insist we all worship.

    That has nothing to do with any authority figure but has to do with an evil figure.
    Are you concluding that if humans worship anyone or anything that demands worship, it makes that person evil? If so, I might actually agree.

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
    H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 814 by AZPaul3, posted 09-18-2022 10:18 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

      
    AZPaul3
    Member
    Posts: 7020
    From: Phoenix
    Joined: 11-06-2006
    Member Rating: 2.9


    Message 818 of 822 (898064)
    09-18-2022 10:41 AM
    Reply to: Message 815 by Phat
    09-18-2022 10:25 AM


    Re: Hatred Of Thinking?
    Humans failed with God. They are now failing without god.
    What does this tell you, Phat?
    The very idea of gods poisoned the species leading to much blood but since the gods are fake your two observations should tell you something significant.

    Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 815 by Phat, posted 09-18-2022 10:25 AM Phat has not replied

      
    AZPaul3
    Member
    Posts: 7020
    From: Phoenix
    Joined: 11-06-2006
    Member Rating: 2.9


    Message 819 of 822 (898072)
    09-18-2022 12:12 PM


    Sundae Sunday
    Phat's favorite apologist, Mr. Deity, asks a very puzzling question. If god resurrected himself then walked and performed miracles on earth for hundreds of people to see for 40 days before ascending back to his sky mansion, then why does the bible cover it up?

    Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

      
    ringo
    Member
    Posts: 19995
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005
    Member Rating: 2.6


    Message 820 of 822 (898092)
    09-18-2022 3:59 PM
    Reply to: Message 813 by Phat
    09-18-2022 9:49 AM


    Re: Hatred Of Thinking?
    Phat writes:
    AZPaul3 writes:
    So, what's the point, Phat?
    To get you to talk for one thing.
    Are you having trouble getting AZPaul to talk? That doesn't sound plausible to me. All you should have to do is sit back and wait a minute.
    Phat writes:
    I would submit that you dont know "my god". Neither does ringo.
    I have said it before: I know your God better than you do.
    Discuss.
    Phat writes:
    Note that you admit that the hypothetical aliens are superior. What if they have an evolved definition of evil?
    Their definition is irrelevant. Their definition is bound to be self-serving, like the mosquito's definition of evil or the parasitic worm's definition of evil. The only definition of evil that matters to us is our self-serving definition.
    Phat writes:
    What if they claim that by smiting us, they are saving the universe from our eventual attempt at exploration, politics, and spreading our germs and memes through the cosmos?
    That what-if doesn't work with an almighty God. He should be able to stop our depredations without smiting us.

    "Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
    What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
    It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
    Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
    -- Leningrad Cowboys

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 813 by Phat, posted 09-18-2022 9:49 AM Phat has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 821 by Phat, posted 09-19-2022 11:39 AM ringo has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 16346
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 821 of 822 (898121)
    09-19-2022 11:39 AM
    Reply to: Message 820 by ringo
    09-18-2022 3:59 PM


    Re: Hatred Of Thinking?
    ringo writes:
    The only definition of evil that matters to us is our self-serving definition.
    If God exists, the fact that He doesn't save every baby, sick person, or hurt person causes some people to declare Him evil.
    I suppose that is self-serving in that we humans expect a God who will take care of us.
    Some believe in a Deistic God who lets us grow up and make mistakes while He is busy playing poker with lesser gods in some corner of the universe.
    Both you and I grew up believing that Jesus was God. You don't believe that He ever existed as marketed, but you hint that He is evil also based on Matthew 25.
    You DO realize that death is just another part of life, don't you?
    God is under no obligation to do anything for ringo or Phat.
    No wonder you stopped believing. You expected God to be nicer. And yet you berate me for making up a nicer version of Jesus. Sheesh.

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
    H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 820 by ringo, posted 09-18-2022 3:59 PM ringo has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 822 by ringo, posted 09-19-2022 12:05 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    ringo
    Member
    Posts: 19995
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005
    Member Rating: 2.6


    Message 822 of 822 (898124)
    09-19-2022 12:05 PM
    Reply to: Message 821 by Phat
    09-19-2022 11:39 AM


    Re: Hatred Of Thinking?
    Phat writes:
    If God exists, the fact that He doesn't save every baby, sick person, or hurt person causes some people to declare Him evil.
    Causes thinking people to conclude that He is evil.
    Evil is as evil does - and also as evil doesn't do. If He stands and watches somebody drown when He has the power to pull them out, He is evil.
    Phat writes:
    ... you hint that He is evil also based on Matthew 25.
    God said He creates evil in Isaiah 45:7. Matthew 25 just confirms that Jesus endorses sending people to eternal fire.
    Phat writes:
    You DO realize that death is just another part of life, don't you?
    That's totally irrelevant to this discussion.
    Phat writes:
    God is under no obligation to do anything for ringo or Phat.
    He certainly is. If anybody has the power to prevent evil from happening and they just stand by and watch it happen, they are eivil. If He's not part of the solution, He's part of the problem.
    Phat writes:
    No wonder you stopped believing.
    I stopped believing because of arguments like yours.
    Phat writes:
    You expected God to be nicer. And yet you berate me for making up a nicer version of Jesus.
    Well, DUH!
    You pretend to believe in a god but you have to make up a sunshine-and-lollipops god that even YOU can swallow. You no more of a believer than I am. You cherry-pick Bible verses when it suits you but you can't stomach the Biblical God either.

    "Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
    What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
    It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
    Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
    -- Leningrad Cowboys

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 821 by Phat, posted 09-19-2022 11:39 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
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