Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 61 (9083 total)
132 online now:
AZPaul3, dwise1, evolujtion_noob, nwr, PaulK, Percy (Admin), Taq, vimesey, xongsmith (9 members, 123 visitors)
Newest Member: evolujtion_noob
Post Volume: Total: 897,238 Year: 8,350/6,534 Month: 1,419/1,124 Week: 188/430 Day: 64/60 Hour: 6/10


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Senator Al Franken?
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3889
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 6.4


Message 286 of 299 (858700)
07-22-2019 11:35 PM


Franken ‘Absolutely’ Regrets Resigning From The Senate
Franken ‘Absolutely’ Regrets Resigning From The Senate
quote:
Former Sen. Al Franken (D-MN) says he absolutely regrets resigning from the Senate, adding that he wishes he had appeared before the Senate Ethics Committee to let more details of the sexual harrasment accusations come to light.
A stunning number of current senators told the New Yorker, on the record, that they regret the haste with which they’d joined in calls for Franken’s resignation. They include Sens. Patrick Leahy (D-VT), Tammy Duckworth (D-IL), Angus King (I-ME), Jeff Merkley (D-OR) and Tom Udall (D-NM).
Read Jane Mayer’s deep dive on the photo that ended Franken’s career and the reaction it elicited here.
Again:
quote:
Former Sen. Al Franken (D-MN) says he absolutely regrets resigning from the Senate, adding that he wishes he had appeared before the Senate Ethics Committee to let more details of the sexual harrasment accusations come to light.
"Harrasment" is their spelling. My spell check says the below is correct.
I've thought that the one question I would have liked to ask Al is "Why didn't you submit yourself to the Senate Ethics Committee to let more details of the sexual harassment accusations come to light?
More from the New Yorker link:
quote:
Franken’s fall was stunningly swift: he resigned only three weeks after Leeann Tweeden, a conservative talk-radio host, accused him of having forced an unwanted kiss on her during a 2006 U.S.O. tour. Seven more women followed with accusations against Franken; all of them centered on inappropriate touches or kisses. Half the accusers’ names have still not become public. Although both Franken and Tweeden called for an independent investigation into her charges, none took place. This reticence reflects the cultural moment: in an era when women’s accusations of sexual discrimination and harassment are finally being taken seriously, after years of belittlement and dismissal, some see it as offensive to subject accusers to scrutiny. Believe Women has become a credo of the #MeToo movement.
At his house, Franken said he understood that, in such an atmosphere, the public might not be eager to hear his grievances. Holding his head in his hands, he said, I don’t think people who have been sexually assaulted, and those kinds of things, want to hear from people who have been #MeToo’d that they’re victims. Yet, he added, being on the losing side of the #MeToo movement, which he fervently supports, has led him to spend time thinking about such matters as due process, proportionality of punishment, and the consequences of Internet-fuelled outrage.
Moose

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 287 of 299 (858703)
07-23-2019 2:03 AM
Reply to: Message 272 by Percy
11-18-2018 12:28 PM


Re: A Little More Avenatti News (Very Little)
So if LAPD is still investigating then they could not yet have charged Avenatti with anything, yet the previous report I cited said the LAPD had claimed he'd been charged, while there's nothing in the news quoting anyone in the LAPD nor an LAPD report saying this.
Meaning he's been arrested (charged) and is being held on Probable Cause, more than likely because it was reported as a domestic issue where there is a higher probability that a furtherance of violence will continue in the absence of direct intervention. Holding someone on Probable Cause (51% more probable than it is 49% improbable) based on a preliminary investigation is standard protocol. It then gets routed (probably in this case a Family/Domestic Violence Unit) who investigates further. Based on their secondary investigation, either charges are dropped or the DA's office picks up the case for prosecution. Then the defendant and attorney(s) work with the DA to decide whether they want to take a plea deal or fight it in open court.
So in this case it sounds like he's been charged but not convicted.
Regarding the recent LAPD arrest I remain perplexed and await more news. Either Aventti's in trouble for domestic abuse, or someone else is in trouble for filing a false report and (if the report is true that the LAPD had been shown visible injuries) fabricating evidence.
Most states now, California for certain, lawfully require patrol officers to make an arrest where there is either visible or bodily injury or a complaint of pain. And the officers have to determine who is the Primary Aggressor and who is the Predominant Aggressor (more often than not its the same person). But its not always a fun job and often times it can be difficult to piece together relevant facts when both parties are injured and their stories are diametrically opposed. Requires giving them a Miranda Warning and digging deep into their statements to look for internal inconsistencies or testimonies that don't align with the evidence.
Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.
Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.
Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 272 by Percy, posted 11-18-2018 12:28 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 21153
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 288 of 299 (858709)
07-23-2019 8:17 AM


The Case of Al Franken
The New Yorker has just ran an investigative article on The Case of Al Franken. This is a l-o-n-g article but well worth reading, especially if you're a Franken supporter.
The gist is that the Tweeden charges have some serious holes, and that unbeknownst to us at the time Tweeden is an arch conservative who works for the most conservative TV outlet in Los Angeles. This outlet was instrumental in managing the release of her story by first making the groping photograph public and later providing her account. Tweeden didn't make herself available for the article.
But the stories of the seven other women who came forward largely hold up, though not all made themselves available to the reporter.
The bottom line seems to be that Franken should have had a chance to face a hearing before the Ethics Committee so that the charges could have been properly investigated. I hope he somehow finds his way back into the Senate.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 289 by Minnemooseus, posted 07-24-2019 4:09 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3889
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 6.4


Message 289 of 299 (858808)
07-24-2019 4:09 AM
Reply to: Message 288 by Percy
07-23-2019 8:17 AM


Re: The Case of Al Franken
The gist is that the Tweeden charges have some serious holes, and that unbeknownst to us at the time Tweeden is an arch conservative who works for the most conservative TV outlet in Los Angeles.
Right from the beginning it was known that Tweeden was/is a Trump supporter with ties to Fox news. And it was the bogus (bad joke at worst) Tweeden photo that set off the frenzy. Short of a Tweeden confession, we'll never know if she was an active participant in the posing of that photo, but such is my suspicion.
But the stories of the seven other women who came forward largely hold up, though not all made themselves available to the reporter.
As I remember it, the bulk of these were "butt touching" incidents during photograph takings at the Minnesota state fair. I, for more reasons that one, wished these had been investigated/discussed more - On the lighter side I see the phrase "Buttgate" as the title of the scandal. But, as I've said before, Franken probably posed for hundreds of these photos. In the situations of large crowds of people, lots of cameras, and Franken being a center of attention, might someone have photo-captured one of these "butt touches"
The only Franken with a woman photo I've seen (available upthread somewhere), for better or worse, showed no sign of where Franken's hands were. The (fairly low resolution) photo I saw did show signs of the photoshop removal of Franken's hand from the woman's shoulder. Or maybe it was a photoshop to remove a hand that was never there in the first place, just to confuse things more. Anyway, that woman was also on record as being a Trump supporter. How many Trump supporter women might there be, willing to take part in a smear of a substantial opponent of the Trump agenda?
Yes, Franken has admitted to being a hugger (and I now don't phrase that as what you once interpreted as a (wink wink) "hugger"). So indeed, Franken may well have been guilty of being a little too physically affectionate. But doing such in a place with lots of people and lots of cameras? That seems to be a pretty poor way to hide your evilness. I guess any future Franken with a woman photos need to have Al waving his hands up in the air.
The bottom line seems to be that Franken should have had a chance to face a hearing before the Ethics Committee so that the charges could have been properly investigated.
I don't know if his once stating that he wanted an Ethics Committee hearing went so far as he or anyone else formally requesting such. It seemed that no one wanted to let good procedure stand in the way of running a pervert out of the Senate.
I hope he somehow finds his way back into the Senate.
I checked it out a while back, and he would have been (and Tina Smith is) up for reelection in the fall of 2020. Pending what new information comes out in the meantime, I'd go with Franken in a Franken/Smith primary confrontation. It's not looking promising that the Amy Klobuchar Senate seat is going to be coming open in 2020/2021.
Maybe the whole mess was to eliminate the possibility of a Franken vs Trump Presidential battle in 2020??? I've said it before and I'll say it again, who has better credentials with confronting "big fat idiots"? What would happen if Trump would have mouthed off like he did to Hillary, but it had been Franken as his opponent? Isn't there some saying about the dangers of heckling a professional comedian? Not that Franken was much if at all a comedian as a Senator.
Moose

Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.
"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith
"Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien
"Politics is not the art of the possible. It consists in choosing between the disastrous and the unpalatable." - John Kenneth Galbraith
It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn’t know what he was talking about. -- Paul Krugman (as stolen from Chiroptera's signature)
"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose

This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by Percy, posted 07-23-2019 8:17 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3889
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 6.4


Message 290 of 299 (861783)
08-26-2019 9:49 PM


Franken Anounces Run for Senate
Franken Anounces Run for Senate | Greg Laden's Blog
quote:
quote:
Today, a Climate Hawk is announcing his candidacy in the crowded Iowa Democratic Party primary for the chance to send Koch-funded, Koch-created, Koch-parroting climate-science denier Jodi Ernst to the pasture.
As his announcement video makes clear, Iowa farm boy Vice Admiral Mike Franken, U.S. Navy (retired), places climate change as core to his priorities, as core to his campaign, as core to his understanding of Iowans’ concerns about today and tomorrow.

A quote of a quote.
Gave me quite a rush when I saw the headline.
Not that I really have anything against Senator Tina Smith, but I think the other Franken should primary her this coming election.
Moose

Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.
"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith
"Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien
"Politics is not the art of the possible. It consists in choosing between the disastrous and the unpalatable." - John Kenneth Galbraith
It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn't know what he was talking about. -- Paul Krugman (as stolen from Chiroptera's signature)
"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3889
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 6.4


(1)
Message 291 of 299 (861966)
08-29-2019 10:53 PM


Gillibrand Campaign Insiders Felt Franken Resignation Foiled Her Bid
How Franken Resignation Affected Gillibrand - TPM – Talking Points Memo
quote:
According to a Politico report Thursday, people from inside the Gillibrand campaign acknowledged that being the first Democratic senator to call for the resignation of former Sen. Al Franken (D-MN) last year over sexual misconduct allegations most likely played into the challenges she faced during her campaign, especially when it came to fundraising. Franken has said he absolutely regrets resigning.
A couple of links in that paragraph at the source.
quote:
Franken was definitely a problem in terms of fundraising, a person familiar with the Gillibrand campaign told Politico. He just kept coming up, over and over again.
Jen Palmieri, Hillary Clinton’s former communications director, shared a similar sentiment on there being no question that the Franken resignation had a huge, outsized impact on Gillibrand’s campaign.
The sub-current of her entire candidacy was the Franken resignation, and people unfairly pinning that on her, Palmieri told Politico. It’s a crowded field, and it’s hard for all the candidates, but that really hampered her.
Franken screwed up her political career by resigning???
Moose

Replies to this message:
 Message 293 by nwr, posted 02-11-2020 7:22 PM Minnemooseus has not replied

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3889
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 6.4


(1)
Message 292 of 299 (871738)
02-10-2020 11:48 PM


What if Al was in the picture
Percy writes:
I watched the Friday Democratic debate and the Sunday morning analysis programs and had these impressions:
  • Bernie Sanders: For going toe-to-toe verbally with Trump on a debate stage, it's Bernie. His ability to deflect criticism and then return to his message is very strong. He had a very strong debate performance. But he embraces the socialist label. He insists on calling it "democratic socialism," but if you look it up it's not much different from plain old socialism. I consider him unelectable. He'll win the primary easily because he's so well known here because he was once governor of the adjacent state of Vermont.
  • Amy Klobuchar: She's a strong second for going toe-to-toe with Trump. She also had a very strong debate performance. But she wasn't invited on any Sunday morning programs that I saw - I haven't watched Jake Tapper's or Chris Wallace's shows yet. I looked at her stands on the issues at her website and she has all the right positions on healthcare, gun control, immigration, taxes, trade, foreign relations, student debt, climate change and abortion rights.
Source from elsewhere of the above
Was the (more or less) smear of Franken important to the Republicans, to get him out of the picture?
Not only was he a powerful voice of reason in the Senate, but might not he also have been in the Presidential picture?
I deem Franken to be a documented expert with dealing with liars and big fat idiots. Going toe-to-toe verbally with Trump? It might just be my dream confrontation.
Moose
Edited by Minnemooseus, : Didn't close the list code.

Replies to this message:
 Message 294 by nwr, posted 02-11-2020 7:29 PM Minnemooseus has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6109
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 293 of 299 (871758)
02-11-2020 7:22 PM
Reply to: Message 291 by Minnemooseus
08-29-2019 10:53 PM


Re: Gillibrand Campaign Insiders Felt Franken Resignation Foiled Her Bid
Franken screwed up her political career by resigning???
The way I would put it, is that Gillibrand screwed up her own career when she made an unwarranted attack on Franken.
For sure, that's the main reason that I ruled her out of consideration from the get go. And I know several other people who have expressed similar reactions.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 291 by Minnemooseus, posted 08-29-2019 10:53 PM Minnemooseus has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6109
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 294 of 299 (871759)
02-11-2020 7:29 PM
Reply to: Message 292 by Minnemooseus
02-10-2020 11:48 PM


Re: What if Al was in the picture
I have been a fan of Al. But if he were running right now, I would not be enthusiastic.
He's too old. Yes, he is younger than the geriatric crowd who are running. But I really think this is the time when we need a younger candidate. At present, Pete Buttigieg and Amy Klobuchar are the only remaining credible candidates who meet that criterion. I'm suspecting that is partly why Pete is doing relatively well.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 292 by Minnemooseus, posted 02-10-2020 11:48 PM Minnemooseus has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 295 by jar, posted 02-12-2020 7:08 AM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 295 of 299 (871769)
02-12-2020 7:08 AM
Reply to: Message 294 by nwr
02-11-2020 7:29 PM


Re: What if Al was in the picture
At least Pete Buttigieg and Amy Klobuchar would certainly have better taste in fashion and throw all of Il Donaldo's two bite whore house decorations in the can. It would be nice to have a White House that was not an homage to garish banality.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 294 by nwr, posted 02-11-2020 7:29 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3889
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 6.4


(1)
Message 296 of 299 (895464)
06-29-2022 10:57 PM
Reply to: Message 278 by Percy
11-19-2018 11:07 AM


Women of the Trump cult
Percy writes:
Al was run out of Congress based on some pretty flimsy allegations. The big damage was the Leanne Tweeden photo, of which Al was guilty of posing for a staged (I think probably with Tweeden's active participation) photograph of a bad joke - "Al Franken groping the ungropable". This was followed up by a number of women saying "Oh my God, he touched my butt while we were having a photo taken at the Minnesota state fair".
In the name of a political assassination, might well there not indeed be a number of women willing to lie or at least distort the truth to eliminate a good and powerful democrat Senate voice?
And with all the people with all the cameras at the state fair, wouldn't you think that someone might of captured a photo or video of Al doing something bad?
I believe the women. #MeToo (it wouldn't be too hard to make the software turn hashtags into links)
Especially considering what we are seeing of the "women of the Trump cult" involved in the January 6th affair, and the women of the Republican party in general, I again assert that there is no shortage of women who would gladly lie to assist in a political assassination.
#MeToo can be abused.
I am not at all denying that there is large amounts of male bad behavior directed at women. But I think the charges against Franken were at the minimum badly blown out of proportion, and actually much closer to baseless slander and libel. Or something like that.
Franken was a powerful voice against Republican stupidity and he needed to be rid of.
ADDED BY EDIT - I invite all to go back to Message 278 and read what was being said back then.
Moose

Edited by Minnemooseus, : ABE


Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.

"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

"Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien

"Politics is not the art of the possible. It consists in choosing between the disastrous and the unpalatable." - John Kenneth Galbraith

It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn't know what he was talking about. - Paul Krugman (as stolen from Chiroptera's signature)

"My fellow Americans, I'm pleased to tell you today that I've signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. We begin bombing in five minutes" - Ronald Reagan (1984)

"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose


This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by Percy, posted 11-19-2018 11:07 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 297 by Percy, posted 06-30-2022 10:45 AM Minnemooseus has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 21153
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 297 of 299 (895468)
06-30-2022 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 296 by Minnemooseus
06-29-2022 10:57 PM


Re: Women of the Trump cult
Minnemooseus writes:
ADDED BY EDIT - I invite all to go back to Message 278 and read what was being said back then.
Many might find Message 278 confusing because much of it is about Michael Avenatti, who was Stormy Daniel's lawyer who had a moment in the sun opposing Trump and revealing himself as an articulate and effective counter to Trump's lies and nonsense. But it seems it takes one to neutralize one, and Avenatti soon revealed himself to be as big a scumbag as Trump, just not as smart as now he's been found guilty of extorting Nike (30 month sentence) and stealing from Stormy Daniels (four year sentence).
I'm all in favor of an Al Franken comeback, but I don't think it will work in less he's forthright about what really happened. It's really, really unfortunate if all the women are lying, but he can't win that argument. If they're lying then he's going to have to lie, too:
quote
Look, I was way too handsy to the point of molestation, I used my position to take liberties I never should have, and I'm very, very sorry. To all the women I've treated badly I apologize from the bottom of my heart and promise it will never happen again. I know an apology is not enough. There's nothing I can do to make it right. But I want you all to know how very sorry I am and that I am a changed man.
But if I return to Congress I promise to be a prominent voice in fighting for the rights of women, just as I've always been, and I think I can make important contributions in the fight against recent decisions of the Supreme Court on things like guns and abortion.
  —Something Al Franken Could Say
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 296 by Minnemooseus, posted 06-29-2022 10:57 PM Minnemooseus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 298 by xongsmith, posted 06-30-2022 12:56 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 299 by Minnemooseus, posted 09-14-2022 2:25 AM Percy has not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2268
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 3.5


(1)
Message 298 of 299 (895471)
06-30-2022 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 297 by Percy
06-30-2022 10:45 AM


Re: Women of the Trump cult
However, so far, all the heroes of the Jan.6th hearings have been women:
Liz Cheney, co-chairing the hearings and a Republican
Caroline Edwards, the police woman defending the Capitol and administering medical help to other officers stricken by tear gasses and bleeding on the steps
Cassidy Hutchinson, assistant to Mark Meadows, with her office some 10~ feet from the Oval Office itself

Edited by xongsmith, : Not sure if Edwards was a Republican


"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."
Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned!
Enjoy every sandwich!

- xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale


This message is a reply to:
 Message 297 by Percy, posted 06-30-2022 10:45 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3889
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 6.4


(1)
Message 299 of 299 (897857)
09-14-2022 2:25 AM
Reply to: Message 297 by Percy
06-30-2022 10:45 AM


Re: Women of the Trump cult
quote:
Look, I was way too handsy to the point of molestation, I used my position to take liberties I never should have, and I'm very, very sorry. To all the women I've treated badly I apologize from the bottom of my heart and promise it will never happen again. I know an apology is not enough. There's nothing I can do to make it right. But I want you all to know how very sorry I am and that I am a changed man.
  —Something Al Franken Could Say
"Look, I was way too handsy to the point of molestation"
- I think this goes to far. I think it would be more like:
"Look, I may have been carried away in expressing physical affection (hugging), to the point that it was a social faux pas"
"I used my position to take liberties I never should have, and I'm very, very sorry."
Somewhere up-thread there was testimony from the women of Saturday Night Live and from the women of Franken's Senate staff, that Franken was proper in his behavior towards them. "Taking liberties" toward potential voters (at the State fair) is not taking liberties toward women he had power over. In that case, it was the women who had some degree of power over him.
Franken was stuck in the environment of the "believe the women" of the "me too" movement. Even if he believed they were lying or at least distorting the truth, he couldn't really state such.
At looking at what we see in the women of MAGA, I'm totally confident many would gladly lie to adversely affect one of the Democratic party.
At the state fair, Franken was accused of touching butts during photo shoots. I'm sure there were massive numbers of photos taken of him from various angles. Has there be any photos of a Franken hand on a butt? Not that I know of.
Now to shift the focus (courtesy of PZ Myers - Gotta admit, Al Franken is one hard-hitting advocate). What we are missing out by not having Franken in the Senate:
Would that woman have lied to help get Franken out of the Senate???
Moose

This message is a reply to:
 Message 297 by Percy, posted 06-30-2022 10:45 AM Percy has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2022 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.1
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2022