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Author | Topic: Anti-theist | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18299 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Phat writes:
It's not so much where "it" leads.... it's where you follow.That's a silly attempt at cleverness. Without lead, there is no follow.
Raw intelligence requires humans. No robot will ever figure out the meaning of the universe. Plus, they don't have to reproduce so it should be interesting what their logic, reason, and reality become.
Phat writes:
No, I mock you for claiming it is the standard.It couldn't be any more black-and-white that it is the standard. You're not mocking a claim. You're mocking the standard. I'm mocking your idea of Christianity. You mock me for making Him up, but the book itself was made up. The only standard we should be held to is the integrity of what we make up. Phat writes:
You never dared to do it.How would you know that? Your religion that you were brought up in was too strict. That's why you started thinking and wormed your way out of it. But it was based on a standard. The reason I know your religious upbringing was too strict is that even now you insist I follow the standard. You cling to the integrity of the book and claim that I don't.
Phat writes:
You thought yourself out of what you labeled a fantasy.That has nothing to do with following the standard. So let me get this straight. The book was written by humans of an earlier warring time. They described a God who commanded them to sacrifice animals and kill every one of their enemy. Jesus comes along and claims that the goats refused to do what He said and thus will also be harshly dealt with. You thought your way beyond both characteristics of the Triune God. The Spirit, which you fondly call the Spook, is also dropped in favor of logic, reason, and reality. Am I right so far? Phat writes:
How could I possibly put pressure on you? And then turn up the pressure on me... Phat writes:
You've already demonstrated that your faith isn't real. What difference would it make if you admitted that YOUR made-up Jesus doesn't exist? ... hoping I will also deny that Jesus exists. Phat writes:
YOU are limiting Him to the version that YOU made up. The version in the book is the only evidence we have for His existence. If Jesus existed, (which I believe He does) He would not limit Himself to a character in a book. Phat writes:
Your assurance is worthless. It's perfectly obvious that your version is made up. And I can assure you I don't make Him up. Phat writes:
The same way any other fictional character is made up. How could I? Phat writes:
It's your standards that are the illogical idea.Show how they are illogical. All I'm trying to show is that the idea of God is not illogical. Phat writes:
I'm defending all of the evidence that we have. How could I do more than that? All you are defending is a book."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18299 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Phat writes:
you get all worked up over the Holy Spirit being a Monster yet never mention the other spirits that seduce, lie, and beguile humanity.ringo writes: in other words, you are collectively against the idea of organized religion...which I nearly agree with except you include the focus on a Creator of all seen and unseen. You are unable to deal with such an idea, so you throw relativism into the equation and respond "which God" as if to prove a point that everyone makes up God anyway. That looks clever on the surface...but IF God exists, you won't win your right to eternal free will. Satan tried it and is projected to fail. No, we mention the apologists all the time. Phat writes:
perhaps ringo is ultimately right.ringo writes: Well I suppose I appreciate it. At least you aren't as mean as Theodoric. I don't care about being "ultimately right". I'd just like to get you to THINK once in a while. Phat writes:
I was shaken by the fervor that all of you had in disproving Jesus. ( which you failed to do, by the way.)ringo writes:
There you go again with relativism. The day I see people worshipping a Leprechaun is the day I explain to you that all other "gods" are imitators. Until then, the only leprechaun I ever see is on a cereal box! There's no need to disprove Jesus, just like there's no need to disprove leprechauns. The default is they don't exist. Again, the "fervor" is to get you to THINK. Phat writes:
I believe in the whole concept of spiritual war because I had subjective observation of such a realm in my own past and because I even see it now on days when I channel my inner asshole.ringo writes: I observed based on where my experiences led me. If apologists are all liars, so are all mythicists. In fact, so are all humans. You "observe" what you want to observe, what your lying apologists say you should observe. But it's all subjective. Phat writes:
The difference is that you liberals don't see it, disbelieve it, and don't in fact care.ringo writes: Well keep up the good work. Quit blaming your problems on conservatives and I might consider easing up on you. Because we try to be objective - And it has nothing to do with being liberal - except that liberals are more likely to THINK. You like the conservatives because they encourage you to be brainless. More likely, we are encouraged to be heartless so that more money can be earned. We surrender our brains to God. If He shows up knocking at your door don't worry. He didn't come for your money or your brain. "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18299 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
ringo writes: Try again. Show how something I SAID is illogical. At this point, I will simply label what you have said as a premature conclusion. The only other thing I can think of is when you compare Jesus with Leprechauns. That is most definitely illogical."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18299 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
The skills which I avoided were falsification, critical thinking, and data. I steered more towards belief at any cost. My motto was that if you don't stand for SOMETHING you are liable to fall for ANYTHING.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18299 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
To a limited degree, yes. I will never throw away my belief (my core belief that there is one God, Jesus is His character and representative, and He desires to be eternally in communion with humanity rather than letting us go to our eventual destruction without Him)
But I am learning to think more, apart from the whole science thing about falsifying an argument. Perhaps that is why jar always wanted me to let go and throw it all away so that I could get a fresh perspective. When I see how much you hate the very idea of an authority figure, I conclude that we need one."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18299 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
AZ writes: ANY version? Note how you have concluded that anything supernatural, if "it" exists, is a monster. Spoken like a true antitheist. What if, on the other hand, it was a superior race of aliens? What if it was simply a giant asteroid on its journey to end life on earth? I could see the rationale in regard to the asteroid. It would be neither good nor evil...it would simply be "universe science". I hate ANY version of a supernatural majikal sky monster you insist we all worship. But about the hypothetical aliens:
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18299 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
WTF you talking about? What if what was a superior race of aliens? The "authority" from the sky. In fact, what if Jesus was actually one of these same aliens? What if the legends were true and He communicated with His Father? It would be like Princess Leia in Star Wars sending a message to Obi-Wan Kenobi. "Help us, Obi-Wan. You're our only hope". So what if these sky aliens were of unknown intent? What if Obi-Wan represented the good or noble side of "the Force". (which some geeks believe in much more readily than Jesus! )
So, what's the point, Phat? To get you to talk for one thing. You are the one who insisted that any "Being" from the sky that was majical was evil.
If it does evil it is evil. Your god does evil. It is evil. First off, I would submit that you dont know "my god". Neither does ringo. All that you two have done is read a book. If superior aliens do evil then they are evil and we will classify them so. Note that you admit that the hypothetical aliens are superior. What if they have an evolved definition of evil? What if they claim that by smiting us, they are saving the universe from our eventual attempt at exploration, politics, and spreading our germs and memes through the cosmos? "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18299 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
What if your what if's are BS and I don't care?
then you need sleep. Take a nap and come back when rested. You seem to care enough about the train wreck that is climate change, yet you say that you are too old to care. People have no idea what's coming. We can't even get along now....it will be worse later. Humans failed with God. They are now failing without god. Time for a smart world leader to take over. Or not."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18299 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
I watched parts of jojo rabbit thanks to you. It was a very good movie.
Now, here's the scary part. If Trump were smart, he would pretend to get saved and change his whole demeanor. They would elect him in a landslide! The Beast would be back at the helm, just in time to take on Russia and China. I don't think he is that bright, however. Bring on the next contender."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18299 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
OK.
810 writes: Are you concluding that if humans worship anyone or anything that demands worship, it makes that person evil? If so, I might actually agree. I hate ANY version of a supernatural majikal sky monster you insist we all worship. That has nothing to do with any authority figure but has to do with an evil figure. "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18299 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
ringo writes: The only definition of evil that matters to us is our self-serving definition. If God exists, the fact that He doesn't save every baby, sick person, or hurt person causes some people to declare Him evil. I suppose that is self-serving in that we humans expect a God who will take care of us. Some believe in a Deistic God who lets us grow up and make mistakes while He is busy playing poker with lesser gods in some corner of the universe. Both you and I grew up believing that Jesus was God. You don't believe that He ever existed as marketed, but you hint that He is evil also based on Matthew 25. You DO realize that death is just another part of life, don't you? God is under no obligation to do anything for ringo or Phat. No wonder you stopped believing. You expected God to be nicer. And yet you berate me for making up a nicer version of Jesus. Sheesh."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18299 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
The Way Of The (Mousey)Mister had a good show featuring the atheist apologist, Alex O'Conner.(Cosmic Skeptic)
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
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Phat Member Posts: 18299 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
ringo writes: In this instance, I am using the word as synonymous with "defense of".. The only person you will have to apologize to will be God Himself. How could there be an atheist apologist? There are no doctrines to apologize for.The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
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Phat Member Posts: 18299 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Interesting! I like learning new stuff...if only I can remember it!
Wiki writes: Psychological projection is the process of misinterpreting what is "inside" as coming from "outside".[1] It forms the basis of empathy by the projection of personal experiences to understand someone else's subjective world.[1] In its malignant forms, it is a defense mechanism in which the ego defends itself against disowned and highly negative parts of the self by denying their existence in themselves and attributing them to others, breeding misunderstanding and causing untold interpersonal damage.[2] A bully may project their own feelings of vulnerability onto the target, or a person who is confused may project feelings of confusion and inadequacy onto other people. Projection incorporates blame shifting and can manifest as shame dumping.[3] Projection has been described as an early phase of introjection.[4] Study of apologetics has enhanced my world view and thinking process, exposing deficiencies as well as strengths.The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
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Phat Member Posts: 18299 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
OK. In my mind, Alex O'Connor is more in defense of Logic vs Logical fallacies. He simply likes to argue. Mr. Deity held his own, though.
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
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