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Author Topic:   Who's the bigger offender: Conservatives or Liberals?
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5274
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


(7)
Message 766 of 773 (894152)
05-03-2022 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 763 by AZPaul3
05-02-2022 10:15 PM


Re: Roe v Wade is coming down.
Not just abortion rights.

As I understand, this decision is based on the privacy-rights arguments made in Roe v. Wade being flawed and invalid. A looming problem is that several other of our rights are based on the same privacy-rights arguments; eg, access to birth control, same-sex marriage, inter-racial marriage.

Once this domino goes down, the Republican culture wars will go after the next dominos in line. We have already seen Republican office holders going after birth control.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 763 by AZPaul3, posted 05-02-2022 10:15 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 767 by Minnemooseus, posted 05-13-2022 1:20 AM dwise1 has replied

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3889
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 6.4


(2)
Message 767 of 773 (894342)
05-13-2022 1:20 AM
Reply to: Message 766 by dwise1
05-03-2022 12:00 PM


Re: Roe v Wade is coming down.
I know, a bare link. Doing it anyway.
Legal expert identifies a 'fatal flaw' in Alito's leaked draft
Moose
Added by edit - The above link has gone bad. Here are some alternative links:
The leaked draft has a fatal flaw. And it's even worse than you think.
Legal expert finds “fatal flaw” in Samuel Alito’s leaked abortion opinion | Salon.com

Edited by Minnemooseus, : Added by edit.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 766 by dwise1, posted 05-03-2022 12:00 PM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 769 by dwise1, posted 09-10-2022 1:31 PM Minnemooseus has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16344
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 768 of 773 (897713)
09-10-2022 1:13 PM


Do Both Sides Offend?
Recently I was challenged by bringing up Ben Shapiro, which got me thinking about Conservative values vs Liberal values.
Can religion be kept out of such discussions, given that it plays a large role in defining people's chosen morality?
Lets examine a few social memes presented on the internet.
Which of these have truth and which are propaganda and lies? That is the next question.
I would amend this one a bit. If we removed God from the equation, Conservatives would place man above government while liberals might place government first.
It seems to be true that religious views are less tolerated publically than are humanist views.
I've no comment on the last one except to say that it seems about right.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5274
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 769 of 773 (897716)
09-10-2022 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 767 by Minnemooseus
05-13-2022 1:20 AM


Re: Roe v Wade is coming down.
All I get is a "Microsoft Start" page and a news feed, not what you're linking to.
What did it say?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 767 by Minnemooseus, posted 05-13-2022 1:20 AM Minnemooseus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 770 by Phat, posted 09-10-2022 1:37 PM dwise1 has not replied
 Message 771 by Phat, posted 09-10-2022 1:46 PM dwise1 has not replied
 Message 772 by Minnemooseus, posted 09-10-2022 8:11 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16344
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 770 of 773 (897718)
09-10-2022 1:37 PM
Reply to: Message 769 by dwise1
09-10-2022 1:31 PM


Re: Roe v Wade is coming down.
Try this link.
[url=http://gorhistory.com/hist111/1970sand1980s.htmlhttp://gorhistory.com/hist111/1970sand1980s.html]
I guess the website is not secure, according to my computer.
Anyway, try this one:
quote:
Liberal - Derived from Middle English term liberalis, meaning befitting free men. Also the Latin term liber meaning freedom .
Adjective = broad-minded, favorable to progress or reform.
Noun = a person with broad-minded, progressive views, especially in politics or religion.
While liberal thought has a long history, modern liberal thought began with the Enlightenment by rejecting many earlier theories of government - The Divine Right of Kings, hereditary status, established religion. Early liberal movements opposed absolute monarchy and various kinds of religious orthodoxy while endorsing new concepts of individual rights under the rule of law - classical liberalism.
Classical liberalism – emphasizes the belief that laissez faire capitalism based on little to no governmental interference in the economy will promote individual liberty. First articulated by John Locke (1632-1704) who described two fundamental ideas behind the idea of individual liberty:
economic liberty – the right to own and use property; and
intellectual liberty – the right to intellectual freedom of thought and conscience.
Social liberalism - emphasizes the belief that because unregulated laissez faire capitalism and the profit motive can cause inequality of wealth, a stronger central government is necessary to protect individual liberty from the perceived excesses of capitalism.
John Maynard Keynes was one of the strongest proponents of social liberals.
By the end of the 19th century, some liberals asserted that in order to be free, individuals needed access to food, shelter, and education and they also needed governmental protection against exploitation.
Then, during the Great Depression, the public's faith in laissez faire capitalism declined and many began to believe that unregulated markets could neither produce prosperity nor prevent poverty -
Conservative - Derived from Middle English term conserven, meaning to save, guard, preserve.
Adjective = marked by moderation or caution.
Noun = a person with moderate or cautious views, especially in politics or religion.
Classical conservatism - emphasizes the belief that the proper purpose of government is to allow men to follow their chosen pursuits with maximum freedom. As Thomas Jefferson said in his first Inaugural Address, "A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government."
Russell Kirk in "The Essence of Conservation" wrote in 1957:
"A conservative is not, by definition, a selfish or a stupid person; instead, he is a person who believes there is something in our life worth saving. Conservatism, indeed, is a word with an old and honorable meaning - but a meaning almost forgotten by Americans until recent years ... Conservatism, then, is not simply the concern of the people who have much property and influence; it is not simply the defense of privilege and status. Most conservatives are neither rich nor powerful. But they do, even the most humble of them, derive great benefits from our established Republic ... Conservatism is not simply a defense of capitalism... But the true conservative does stoutly defend private property and a free economy, both for their own sake and because these are means to great ends. Those great ends ... involve human dignity, human personality, human happiness. They involve even the relationship between God and man."

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 769 by dwise1, posted 09-10-2022 1:31 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16344
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 771 of 773 (897719)
09-10-2022 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 769 by dwise1
09-10-2022 1:31 PM


Re: Roe v Wade is coming down.
Sorry, dwise1. I thought you were replying to me and not Moose.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 769 by dwise1, posted 09-10-2022 1:31 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3889
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 6.4


(1)
Message 772 of 773 (897746)
09-10-2022 8:11 PM
Reply to: Message 769 by dwise1
09-10-2022 1:31 PM


Re: Roe v Wade is coming down.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 769 by dwise1, posted 09-10-2022 1:31 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16344
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


(1)
Message 773 of 773 (898497)
09-25-2022 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 754 by Percy
04-12-2022 9:27 AM


Moving Topic From Racism Thread.
Phat writes:
I apologize for any irrationality I may have. My question to all of you is this: Do you see Republicans by and large as more racist than normal?
Percy writes:
Seriously? Is your head buried in the sand? How would you make a case that they're not.
Are we talking ALL of them? Are ALL Democrats pro-immigration? Are ALL Democrats Secular-Humanists? Let's steer clear of the ALL game.
Percy writes:
Doug Mastriano, Republican nominee for governor in Pennsylvania, donated to Gab, an antisemitic website used by the murderer of 11 Jewish congregates at a Pittsburgh synagogue, and linked to it from his own websites before deleting them this summer. He's called separation of church and state a "myth", and of course, what he actually means is that separation of Christianity and the US government is a myth.

Republicans across the country are neutralizing the black vote through gerrymandering.

Republicans are hostile toward Black Lives Matter.

Republican Russell Walker, running for the statehouse in North Carolina, has a personal website that states "the Jews are NOT Semitic they are satanic as they all descend from Satan."

Arthur Jones, running for Illinois representative, is a member of the American Nazi Party.

Corey Stewart, running in Virginia, is pro-Confederacy.

Paul Nehlen, running in Wisconsin, has been thrown off both Twitter and even Gab for his white supremacist comments.

Georgia eliminated voter drop boxes in certain counties. Predominately black counties. Missouri decided not to deploy the 80 drop boxes it had already purchased. The Trump campaign sued to invalidate drop boxes in Pennsylvania after the 2020 election. Republicans questioned results from drop boxes in Michigan.
OK, you have some valid points.
Percy writes:
Republicans are anti-immigrant, many believing in Replacement Theory, that immigrants are coming to replace white Christians as the dominant group in America.
While it is a fact that other ethnic groups are increasing in population percentage, some of them will be Republican-leaning. They are traditional family and anti LGBTQ and anti Abortion. [/qs] If there is a fear of "white" Christians getting displaced it is our own damn fault for being so insecure.
Percy writes:
Conservatism refers to being conservative about change. Conservatives believe change should be considered very carefully. They think the safest approach is usually just to keep things the way they already are.
Things will never stay the same. Re-electing Trump won't help anything.
Percy writes:
Independents already realize that sometimes the best approach is to conservatively maintain the status quo, but that sometimes one must be more open, liberal one might even say, in considering solutions. Keeping America as White and Christian as possible is definitely a conservative Republican position.
candle2 writes:
Phat, what exactly is it that you didn't like about Trump?
For one, I didn't trust what he said.

For another, he tweeted too darn much and kept firing good staff people like General Matthias. I was wary that he cozied up to Kim Jong Un and Putin. Art of the deal my arse!

Finally, lots of simple-minded people took entirely too much interest in him.

I don't know for a fact he was racist, but he was certainly sexist.

Now you tell me...

Apart from a mammoth tax cut for the rich, what did he even do besides run his mouth and fire people?

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 754 by Percy, posted 04-12-2022 9:27 AM Percy has not replied

  
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