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Author | Topic: Anti-theist | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
WLC is not one of my favorites anyway. Like everyone, he is human and fallible. Granted I see your collective points regarding his undue influence on students who are Christian and struggling with their faith. I believe, however, that nobody should be talked or coached out of their faith. If the world were full of atheists, our problems would be worse...not better.
And the economy (globally) will get markedly worse. I need not prophecy. Just watch the news."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
ringo writes: Not if you are coaching them to throw Allah away. If you are a Christian, OTOH, you can explain to them that Allah really DID have a Son. Does that include Islam? And if they could be talked out of it, how valid was it anyway? You sure either got talked out of it or talked yourself out of it quite easily. I think freeing people from slavery is a good thing. Except that Christians are taught that we are sons and daughters. NOT Slaves. People should be taught how to think their way out of it. People should be taught to think period. There is not always a need to get out of something unless it is harmful for you."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
ringo writes: You and GDR postulate a puny god who can't do this and can't understand that. We humans create things that are deliberately stronger than us and smarter than us. First off, it was meant to be a joke directed at you. At how you can't understand a God who "allows evil". Second of all, if you can imagine a God stronger and smarter than you, and if you claim that YOUR Faith was every bit as strong---stronger even than MY faith, why did you dump Jesus? And if you were Christian...Mennonite or whatever...you would have known Jesus. You likely feared God more than I do...I argue and wrestle with Him often. I don't see something in the Good Book (no longer dusty, I wiped it clean with a sanitizing towelette) as an ironclad rule that I MUST follow or else, I would get struck dead like Annanias and Saphira! You claim that I mock Jesus. Challenging Him is NOT mocking Him. Again, I'm a Son...NOT a Slave.
ringo writes: I think that your Faith was so authoritarian that you were afraid--at first--to talk yourself out of it. Once you did, you left in peace secure in your new knowledge of facts and critical thought...yet sad to wave away Jesus as some human-created mythos. I would NEVER do such a thing. Perhaps I don't listen to Him as strongly as you once did, but I have no regrets. You wish you could believe that MY faith was never as strong as YOUR faith.Evil exists. Humans initially actualized it--not God. God is only responsible for potentiating it. The apologist would argue that evil had to be part of the option of true free will. Peter Kreeft originally came up with this thesis in his interview with Lee Strobel in The Case for Faith: A Journalist Investigates the Toughest Objections to Christianity (Lee Strobel) .
Wiki writes: Apparantly, Kreeft and Breines had several debates....including one notable one on Abortion. Kreeft joined the philosophy faculty of the Department of Philosophy of Boston College in 1965.[7] He has debated several academics in issues related to God's existence. Shortly after he began teaching at Boston College he was challenged to a debate on the existence of God between himself and Paul Breines, an atheist and history professor, which was attended by a majority of undergraduate students. Kreeft later used many of the arguments in this debate to create the Handbook of Christian Apologetics with then undergraduate student Ronald K. Tacelli. (...) Breines tells how he grew up in Scarsdale, NY, the son of politically aware and intellectually inclined parents. He characterizes himself as a "red-diaper baby"—a child born to parents who are leftists—but claims to have been a typical high school student concerned mainly with the things immediately around him. As for Kreeft, Wiki writes: Kreeft converted to Catholicism during his college years.[10] A key turning point came when he was asked by a Calvinist professor to investigate the claims of the Catholic Church that it traced itself to the early Church. He said that, on his own, he "discovered in the early Church such Catholic elements as the centrality of the Eucharist, the Real Presence, prayers to saints, devotion to Mary, an insistence on visible unity, and apostolic succession."[11] The "central and deciding" factor for his conversion was "the Church's claim to be the one Church historically founded by Christ."[11] He reportedly applied C. S. Lewis's trilemma (either Jesus is Lunatic, Liar, or Lord): "I thought, just as Jesus made a claim about His identity that forces us into one of only two camps ... so the Catholic Church’s claim to be the one true Church, the Church Christ founded, forces us to say either that this is the most arrogant, blasphemous and wicked claim imaginable if it is not true, or else that she is just what she claims to be."[12] According to Kreeft's personal account, his conversion to Catholic Christianity was influenced by, among other things, Gothic architecture and Thomistic philosophy, the writings of St. John of the Cross, the logic of asking saints to pray for us, and a visit to St. Patrick's Cathedral in New York City when he was twelve years old, "feeling like I was in heaven ... and wondering why, if Catholics got everything else wrong, as I had been taught, they got beauty so right..."[13] Although a Catholic, he places central emphasis on the unity between Catholics and Protestants.[14] Im not against intelligent debates...no matter which "side" wins. Im in favor of intelligence and feel that it should *not* lead to abandoning ones faith, as has happened to so many of you.
ringo writes: OK, I agree.
It is ALWAYS healthy to question and doubt. It is NEVER healthy to slavishly follow "what sounds good" even if it comes from the Almighty William Lane Craig. ringo writes: Thats because you and dwise1 and perhaps Arizona Paul are quite literal in your thought process. If an oddly shaped alian body were ever found, you all would jump on that belief simply due to the facts of scientific enquiry and evidence. Heck, dwise1 gave up after reading Genesis!! I would have given up too! I never had anybody try to talk me out of my faith (see disclaimer below). On the contrary, just about everybody I knew tried to keep me IN my faith. It would have been SOOOOO easy to keep believing.... Except that there was no truth to the belief. It wasn't that I didn't WANT to believe. It was that what I was supposed to believe was nonsense. But allow me to insert a disclaimer. I dont resent you all having given up. AZPaul3 bases much of his argument on the wickedness of Christians throughout History and the literal wickedness of the God(one of them, anyway) who ordered the slaughter of innocents. Additionally, you can make a case for the modern conservatives and their slavish devotion to Trump. They are more like slaves than the Christians are!
ringo writes: Unlike you, I believe that Christianity is the one true faith. Call me dogmatic and narrow-minded, I really don't care. What about Hindus, then? Which of the Hindu gods can you shoehorn your Jesus into? Faith (our late creationist) would never be as favorable towards Kreeft simply because he was and is a Catholic. I do have a report from her by the way, which I will share with all of you, though it is directed towards Percy. From E-Mail:
[Email from Faith removed because in my judgment it contained too much of a personal nature. --Admin] Anyway, I rarely talk with her and am sorry that her eyesight is so bad. I just wanted everyone to know that she still thinks about us. I really wish she didn't loathe herself though. My sins are far worse than hers, and perhaps I take God too casually.Edited by Admin, . Edited by Admin, : Removed email from Faith. "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
First of all, I appreciate your concerns. I know I'm a nut sometimes...but its not due to high sugars. Right now, my meter shows 179 and heading lower. So the A1C is indeed coming down. Before this new endocrinologist, my sugars were over 300 much of the time.
Hopefully, my mental cognition was not permanently altered, but time will tell."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
ringo writes: I won't disagree except to say not to blame Jesus for my behavior. It is all on me. Your faith has made you an arrogant bastard who thinks he knows better than everybody else. You're constantly telling us that "we'll see" that you were right. It's harming you financially. It's harming your physical health and your mental health."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Theodoric writes: Thats what is taking me so long to respond. Your standard for facts and data is quite high. As I said before, however, the news will explain itself over the next year. We are likely about a year away from some major events. And I'm not talking Armageddon! The Lord Himself says in scripture that the "end is not yet". How and why would the world be worse?The economy seems to be doing quite well considering we are coming out of a world-spanning pandemic and there is a major war going on. Tell us more about this collapsing economy you see. Facts and data only, please. "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
You DO realize that replying to you involves nearly as much scholarly work as a small term paper! The evidence is there, though. Do you really want me to work that hard?
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
ringo writes: Its not so much where "it" leads....its where you follow. Jesus implored us to follow Him. You claim I have no problem challenging His edicts, which is true by the way...but I maintain that you took it to a whole nother level.
Why shouldn't intelligence lead where it leads? Phat writes:
I think that your Faith was so authoritarian that you were afraid--at first--to talk yourself out of it. Once you did, you left in peace secure in your new knowledge of facts and critical thought...yet sad to wave away Jesus as some human-created mythos.ringo writes: Yet you turn right around and say to me:
I dumped the character Jesus BECAUSE he's just a character. He never existed. He never died. He never rose from the dead. He is certainly NOT alive today. The theology you have made up around him is inconsistent and irrational nonsense.(...)Why would I blame something that doesn't exist? I don't blame the leprechauns either.(...)What's sad about getting rid of a false idea?ringo writes: No, I mock you for claiming it is the standard. I would estimate that less than 5% of self-proclaimed Christians do it. You never dared to do it. You thought yourself out of what you labled a fantasy. How convenient! And then turn up the pressure on me, hoping I will also deny that Jesus exists. First of all, "challenging Jesus" would be a very stupid thing to do. Second, you certainly DO mock the idea of giving up everything and trusting him. If Jesus existed, (which I believe He does) He would not limit Himself to a character in a book. And I can assure you I don't make Him up. How could I? It's like making up a Donald Trump who never tweets and who loves poor people.It's your standards that are the illogical idea. Try and defend that while not believing that Jesus ever existed! All you are defending is a book. "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Ben Shapiro tore her up in a debate. You all by and large applaud her but I'd go with Ben's wisdom over hers.
Capitalism vs. Socialism Debate | Ben Shapiro vs. Ana Kasparian"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
This is the first I have heard of him being dishonest. Have you any specific examples?
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
You just resent the fact that I'm not a member of the choir you preach to.
I'll go quietly to my rock, now. "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
He is skilled at talking fast, providing points to back up his argument, and persuading those on the fence while preaching to his own conservative choir. Liberals are frustrated that nobody that they send can "beat" him in a debate. At least that's my take.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
How did my bringing up Ben Shapiro suddenly leap to Hitler and Stalin??
I don't just examine one political/moral ideology. I observe differing sides (and flavors) of both. You show your bias heavily in favor of liberalism and attack me for even suggesting that anyone to the right of the political spectrum has a brain. (perhaps not a heart, in your mind) I am not pro-Trump, though ringo claims I agree with him far too often. I am pro-thinking and just as we have observed that believers, in general, have an emotional need for God, humanists have an emotional need for self-validation. Shapiro is an authoritarian, but so is Biden. Note how Biden attacks a whole half of the country as being fascist. The gloves are off, both sides are squaring off, and my observation is that Fascism can be Left or Right."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
It's the extreme right that concerns us as they are harming this country. Shapiro seems to think that the extreme Left is harming the future of society. Apart from it being Shapiro, do you see any truth in that?"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
If nothing else, I learned specifically what pedantic means, after reading this post.
Websters-- Frequently Asked Questions About pedantic writes:
What is the difference between pedantic and didactic? The word didactic generally means "designed to teach," but it is often used in a negative way to describe boring or annoying lessons, or the people who teach them. While didactic can have a neutral meaning, pedantic is almost always an insult. It typically describes an irritating person who is eager to correct small errors others make, or who wants everyone to know just how much of an expert they are, especially in some narrow or boring subject matter. Is pedantic an insult? Pedantic is an insulting word used to describe someone who annoys others by correcting small errors, caring too much about minor details, or emphasizing their own expertise, especially in some narrow or boring subject matter. What is an example of pedantic? A pedantic person may do lots of annoying things, such as point out minor errors, correct people who make small mistakes and brag about their own knowledge and expertise. AZ writes: Shades of vampire, indeed! One mistake that you guys make is that you get all worked up over the Holy Spirit being a Monster yet never mention the other spirits that seduce, lie, and beguile humanity. They are the ones causing all the trouble! | In fact it is the priests that keep the spook’s temple, enlightened in his presence, that speak in his spirit to issue his laws. The spook himself never seems to come right out into the daylight to deliver his own missives. Maybe some quantum thing between photons and spook particles interferes. Shades of vampire. I suppose that I can't blame them for my own mistakes, and perhaps ringo is ultimately right. On some things, anyway. Or perhaps my inner demon is named "Troll" and Theodoric is right. I doubt it though. When I read the thread mentioned by him from EvC archives,
The Existence of Jesus Christ I was shaken by the fervor that all of you had in disproving Jesus. ( which you failed to do, by the way.) Call me typical for "doubling down on my "irrational fantasy". I believe in the whole concept of spiritual war because I had subjective observation of such a realm in my own past and because I even see it now on days when I channel my inner asshole. The difference is that you liberals don't see it, disbelieve it, and don't in fact care. You will go to your graves protecting the rights of other spirits to freely manifest themselves within humanity. Except for Republicans, of course. The conservative extremists surely deserve hell. The liberal extremists, in contrast, are simply defending human rights. I suspect they are defending doctrines of demons as well, but my craziness meter just beeped, and it's time for my meds.Edited by Phat, : added word "conservative" "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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