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Author | Topic: Anti-theist | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
The difference is that you planned for your retirement. I didnt.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
ringo writes: So what? Your interpretation is wrong. You didn't imagine yourself an expert at scripture, did you? Phat should be ashamed of himself for cheering your nonsense. I've been through all this with him before. You have had the audacity to state that parts of the Bible are wrong and that you only follow and quote the parts that get it right. The only reason you like the idea that Jesus expects everyone to give everything they have up before they gain eternal life is that you are a leftist who believes that people have a charge to take care of each other. Though you may be right, let me remind you that were the state EVER to declare that everyones money belonged to them I and many others would NOT agree with such a ludicrous idea. Even the Apostles told Ananias that the money remained his after the sale. And even if Jesus had spoken of such a requirment, it was clarely NOT applicable to everybody and the Apostles would no have ever read it since there was no Bible at that time. If they had the Holy Spirit, which is commonly believed, they would have done precisely what the Spirit led them to do. I have no shame over your preferred teachings."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
ringo writes: I never said you did. I said only that IF the State (or Federal Government) has any illusions about a necessary bail-in to "save" the economy they would have NO RIGHT to do so. Thats all. I HAVE NOT SAID A WORD ABOUT "THE STATE" TAKING ANYTHING! (And im thinking that in an emergency YOU would support such a thing!) neither you nor Dredge has been able to demonstrate that it is not applicable to everybody. Again I ask you to whom we would give everything (materialistic) up? I certainly don't trust either the apologists OR the government. As for helping family, neighbors in need, and people in general, I could do. What puzzles me is how you claim on the one hand that Jesus wants us to give it ALL up and yet reassure me that I wouldn't be homeless. It takes money to pay rent.And would Jesus not allow us to have a car?"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Phat writes: What puzzles me is how (ringo claims) on the one hand that Jesus wants me to give it ALL up and yet reassures me that I wouldn't be homeless. It takes money to pay rent.And would Jesus not allow me to have a car? Sanctamonious Tangle writes: I don't doubt that Jesus is real. I doubt whether I have the guts to take the plunge. And I'm certain that He understands my weakness and my reluctance. He is not a static character in a book who has given all of us marching orders and disqualifies anyone who is not all-in. You guys can scoff and believe what you want. None of you even believe that He once existed. Fewer still believe that He is alive today eternally. And you find it incredible that I don't fully trust myself in regards to listening.
Jesus would make sure that if you did what he says, one way or another you'd be fine. Or don't you believe in Jesus? dwise1 writes: Guilty. Now what? Am I waiting for Jesus to disown me? Would you be? The error is that jar has convinced everyone that Christianity is all about what we DO and that I refuse to DO as ordered.
Which master do you serve, God or Mammon? Despite your repeated protestations that you believe in and serve Jesus and that He is your personal friend, you clearly serve Mammon. dwise1 writes: I am far from an atheist. I don't hang my hat on objective evidence, at least in this issue.
Does that mean that you are secretly an atheist? A closeted atheist? Why would you want to pretend to be a Christian? Come out of the closet! ringo writes: The issue is how much they have a right to. ALL of it? Anything over $100,000.00? (I would be safe in that case) The government certainly does have the "right" to tax you - and you have an obligation to render unto Caesar. (...)In an emergency, the government has the right and the obligation to fix things. Any sensible person would support that. Do you even know what a Bail-In is?"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
The issue here had nothing to do with what the government takes.
The issue has everything to do with the hook I *should be* on and the lack of such a hook for you, Tangle, and dwise1.Thus I bring up the government as the alternative hook which you likely would ALL support and how I would fight it. Liberals like government. Conservatives are the ones who say let the dollar crash as we have our own alternative ways out of the mess. We owe *everybody* nothing as they owe us nothing. I say let the free enterprise run the show rather than mandatory government solutions. They have not worked yet. Stay tuned and we will talk about this crisis as it unfolds in 2022-2023. The Federal Reserve has put everyone in mandatory checkmate. I won't trust the government to fix it. As for Jesus, I pray He does not give up on me for my refusal to trust Him with all I have."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
I did my homework out of semi-desperation this morning. I feel like giving up...or giving in. I can't deny the emotions...both of what I read and the rebukes coming from EvC. Why I get so mad at "Liberals" has been partly because I have felt that they (you) were against me and my personal beliefs and expected me to listen to "what Jesus" told me to do. Ironic that this edict comes from a group of unbelievers!
Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words writes:
I was a bit shocked that such strong reactions were coming at me from some of you. But perhaps I deserved a verbal slap in the face!
LIBERAL, LIBERALITY, LIBERALLYA. Noun. 1. haplotes NT:572 denotes (a) "simplicity, sincerity, unaffectedness" (from haplous, "single, simple," in contrast to diplous, "double"), Rom 12:8, "simplicity"; 2 Cor 11:3 (in some mss. in 1:12); Eph 6:5 and Col 3:22, "singleness"; (b) "simplicity as manifested in generous giving," "liberality," 2 Cor 8:2; 9:11 (KJV, "bountifulness," RV marg., "singleness"); 9:13 (KJV, "liberal"). See BOUNTY, No. 2. 2. charis NT:5485 is rendered "liberality" in 1 Cor 16:3, KJV. See BOUNTY, No. 3. B. Adverb. haplos NT:574, "liberally, with singleness of heart," is used in James 1:5 of God as the gracious and "liberal" Giver. The word may be taken either (a) in a logical sense, signifying unconditionally, simply, or (b) in a moral sense, generously; for the double meaning compare A, No. 3. On this passage Hort writes as follows: "Later writers comprehend under the one word the whole magnanimous and honorable type of character in which singleness of mind is the central feature." "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Tangle, I know that you often chide me for preaching Doom. I dont mean to be negative---only realistic. I peruse hundreds of You Tube videos...most of which I dont agree with. Some of the ones that I think are quite plausible are shared with you here. None of them are religious. And I think that all of them are backed by science. If anyone either watches some of the content or the transcripts, feel free to comment. I doubt you will be able to prove that these videos are not plausible.
Who Controls All Our Money? Devastating Solar Storm Hits Earth The San Andreas Fault: Disaster About to Strike]The San Andreas Fault: Disaster About to Strike Yellowstone: Big Volcano Ready to Erupt Volcanic Hyper Eruption In my opinion, humans are likely to exasperate their own demise with or without scientific evidence of upcoming disasters, which could well be ten thousand years in the future. Two things irritate me for better or worse. One, which the facts show as likely, a financial collapse will occur within our lifetimes. And this alone could trigger further global wars.And even with no God, no apocalypse and no religious judgment, there are many events which could challenge humanity. So here we all are. ringo claims that I, as the "Christian" am commanded by Jesus to give everything up. No one else here is so commanded. And yet I fear that you dont understand reality vs gambling. (im slowly learning!) My question to all of you is this: Is humanity ready to cooperate should chaos erupt?"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
I suppose that watching our mousey little "Mr.Deity" could be construed as positive. He would annoy me more, but being an "Ex-Mormon" does not qualify as serious credentials anyway.
Now...if he were an ex-apologist debunking what he once tried to defend, I would likely feel less positive about his entertainment value. This morning I was perusing Reddit...which I recently joined. They have some well thought out theological discussions between theists and atheists. The atheists are skilled at always interjecting enough doubt into the arguments so that the theists never win. Perhaps this is the way it was meant to be..."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
AZHonesty3 writes: I feel it too, though my critics say that I'm usually negative regarding the future rather than positive. World news is not friendly these days and many, like me, are experiencing the existential dread that humanity seems to be ignoring. Poor Europe, though! I read this morning that they are experiencing the worst drought in 500 years! Combine that with the dire forecast regarding energy supply this winter and our always expanding global population and I genuinely worry about the future. Perhaps our erudite "Way Of The Mister" will have some ready wisdom on hand to believe in. "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Except that evidence is not required for belief. Belief can in fact be quite strong (albeit irrational) with no supporting evidence.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Jesus also said blessed are those who have *not* seen and have yet believed. What's your point?
You would likely be even worse than Thomas. Ringo: "Unless all of my friends and colleagues agree with the evidence you show me, I'll forever doubt." Or even worse:Ringo: "Unless the people who claim to be followers give everything up in order to follow you, I will have my doubts that anyone knows you." Edited by Phat, : added sentence "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
OK so we can agree that there is no evidence. Now what?
(off to work...will respond later. )"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
You are right, but please use a different word than "trumps all". I dont like that word for some reason.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Its not Trump I agree with Its conservative platforms like continuing with oil and gas until we get green off the ground, which most experts say will take between 10 and 20 years. Its keeping the place running instead of making ourselves feel the pinch while China burns coal and goes full ahead. What we need to get a handle on is spending...Although I think it's too late for that. America is like an addict in regard to money. We won't ever quit spending.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
AZ whatever am I going to do with you? You not only adopted the mousey little Mr.Deity (Way Of The Mister indeed! ) but you now are questioning the mind of William Lane Craig! I suppose it is healthy to question and even doubt at times, but look at the fruit it has produced in your life! You are mad at all religious minds and souls.
When the economy goes berzerk, as it surely will within 5 years at the latest, and when food scarcity, wars and rumors of wars, and draconian politicians who want to indoctrinate children to understand their sexuality away from their parents become common (oh wait...it already has! ) you can rest assured that the culture war will have become mainstream. Hopefully, you and I can continue talking through all of thisforeknown chaos. Oh and by the way, I'm interested in this Paulogia fellow. I plan on watching a few of his episodes! "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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