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Author Topic:   I Know That God Does Not Exist
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 3127 of 3207 (896870)
08-24-2022 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 3124 by Phat
08-24-2022 3:20 PM


Re: Monsters Under The Bed
Phat writes:
Stop and think. Why would I create an evil God?
It doesn't matter why. The God you have created is evil by your own description. You call Him the Creator of all things seen and unseen, don't you? So he created the horrible diseases that kill innocent children.
Asking why you would create an evil God is like asking why you would rob a bank. Your idea is, "That's a bad thing, so I wouldn't do it." But that doesn't follow.
Phat writes:
The God I worship existed long before you or me
That's just empty rhetoric.
Phat writes:
Second, just because some preacher brayed that the unsaved will suffer eternal torment...
And quotes scripture to back it up:
quote:
Matthew 25:45-46 ... Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
(Jesus Himself speaking.)
Phat writes:
I (being Christian) would pray about it.
Which is why I say you make it up. You think you can pray away what you don't like.
Phat writes:
You claimed that you were once Christian as I am. If so, why do you keep referring back to the character in the book as if He were static and unapproachable?
You answered your own question. I used to believe He was approachable but it turns out He isn't. He's made up.
Phat writes:
No sane group of people would worship a character in a book if that character was not somehow or in some way alive to them.
You said it, I didn't - You're insane.
According to a popular "definition", insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. That seems like a pretty good description of believers.
Phat writes:
As for the OT vengeful God...
I quoted the NT Jesus.
Phat writes:
note that all manners of death were done by humans. It is humans who are responsible...not God.
Nonsense. When did you ever hear of humans using a lake of fire as a murder weapon? Do we need to lobby for lake-of-fire control? The NRA and the SCOTUS will be calling lakes of fire a "militia weapon".
Phat writes:
No nation can simply blame God for what they did in a war.
Who said anything about war?

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3124 by Phat, posted 08-24-2022 3:20 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3130 by Phat, posted 08-25-2022 11:48 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 3131 of 3207 (896890)
08-25-2022 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 3130 by Phat
08-25-2022 11:48 AM


Re: Monsters Under The Bed
Phat writes:
The Lake Of Fire was created for Satan and the fallen angels.
Stop it. Don't pretend that I have never read the Bible.
quote:
Matthew 13:41-42 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Do I need to go on?
Phat writes:
Why are you so worried about a monster God who fries your friends?
Are you kidding me? Did you just write that?
How could I possibly NOT be concerned about a monster criminal who fries ANYBODY?
Phat writes:
All they have to do is quit following the demons around getting seduced by them *cough* alcohol *cough* and they will never get near such a Lake.
There you go again, pretending I have never read the Bible.
quote:
Matthew 25:44-46 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Eternal punishment has NOTHING to do with "following demons".
Phat writes:
Or are you afraid that the only way to steer clear of such a Lake is to be forced to follow Jesus!
That's what YOU claim. But you have a perverted idea of what it means to "follow Jesus".
Phat writes:
You want a life where you are free to choose following nobody and sticking with your human friends.

And yet you worry that your friends are getting fried. Paranoid much?
Again, are you fucking kidding me? Did you just fucking write that?
It's BECAUSE I put my friends before your monster God that I don't want your monster God to fry my friends. HOW on earth is that paranoid?

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3130 by Phat, posted 08-25-2022 11:48 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3132 by Phat, posted 08-25-2022 12:32 PM ringo has replied
 Message 3133 by Phat, posted 08-25-2022 12:39 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 3134 of 3207 (896894)
08-25-2022 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 3132 by Phat
08-25-2022 12:32 PM


Re: Monsters Under The Bed
Phat writes:
Ask yourself if any of your "friends" have those qualities.
Once again, you ignored the entire point of my message. In Message 3130 you claimed that, "The Lake Of Fire was created for Satan and the fallen angels." I pointed out that you were dead wrong.
Phat writes:
I don't limit my perception and definition of this "God character" as what's in the book.
I knew you were going to say that. In your monumental arrogance, you think your own made-up Jesus is better than the only actual evidence that we have.
Phat writes:
I've never seen Jesus (God's character) as a monster.
You've deliberately made up a Jesus who is not a monster. Your Jesus does not exist outside your own head. That's what we call "delusion".

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3132 by Phat, posted 08-25-2022 12:32 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3137 by Phat, posted 08-25-2022 1:03 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 3135 of 3207 (896895)
08-25-2022 12:47 PM
Reply to: Message 3133 by Phat
08-25-2022 12:39 PM


Re: Monsters Under The Bed
Phat writes:
Are you opposed to capital punishment?
Of course. (What did you think I would say?)
Phat writes:
Would you defend Hitler?
Yes. Everybody is entitled to a defense.
Phat writes:
If possible, would you be the defense attorney for Lucifer?
I have done exactly that in this very forum.
Do you have a point?

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3133 by Phat, posted 08-25-2022 12:39 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3136 by Phat, posted 08-25-2022 1:00 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 3138 of 3207 (896898)
08-25-2022 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 3136 by Phat
08-25-2022 1:00 PM


Re: Monsters Under The Bed
Phat writes:
Why can't you defend God instead of labeling Him a "Monster"?
I'm not "labelling" Him a monster. I'm pointing out that He IS a monster. Yes, He is entitled to a defense, just like that other monster Hitler - but He isn't necessarily entitled to MY defense. Have you ever heard me defend Hitler?
A better question would be, "Why do YOU defend your monster God? Why do you make up a whole untenable theology to try to defend your made-up monster?

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3136 by Phat, posted 08-25-2022 1:00 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 3139 of 3207 (896899)
08-25-2022 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 3137 by Phat
08-25-2022 1:03 PM


Re: Monsters Under The Bed
Phat writes:
God never sends any human to hell.
Your made-up God.
Phat writes:
God DID prepare a place for the fallen angels, who previously made their own choice.
Where are you getting this?
Phat writes:
Show me how the character in the book, Jesus Christ, is in any way a monster.
I already did, just a few posts ago. Matthew 25. He's going to send a lot of people to eternal punishment.
(See, here I'm defending the low-lifes who don't feed the hungry. They don't deserve eternal punishment either.)
Phat writes:
Well, *your* Jesus only exists in the book and is nowhere near your head.
He isn't "my" Jesus. He's the only Jesus that exists, as a character in a book. And no, He is not in my head. Having a delusion that's only in your own head is a bad thing.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3137 by Phat, posted 08-25-2022 1:03 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3140 by Theodoric, posted 08-25-2022 9:15 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 3141 of 3207 (896912)
08-26-2022 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 3140 by Theodoric
08-25-2022 9:15 PM


Re: Monsters Under The Bed
Theodoric writes:
Would be nice if he knew his bible.
The worst of it is he cherry-picks the parts he likes. One minute he's saying he's "not limited by the book" and the next minute he's quoting the book to back up some point.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3140 by Theodoric, posted 08-25-2022 9:15 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3142 by Phat, posted 08-26-2022 12:22 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 3143 of 3207 (896914)
08-26-2022 1:08 PM
Reply to: Message 3142 by Phat
08-26-2022 12:22 PM


Re: Monsters Under The Bed
Phat writes:
You do nearly the same thing. One minute you quote Chapter and Verse about what Jesus told his followers to do while the next moment you argue that Jesus never existed the way He is presented in organized religion.
It's entirely different. I only point out what you WOULD do if your belief was sincere.
Phat writes:
If God exists as Father/Son//Holy Spirit in the book and believers are expected to follow such a God then God exists for everyone.
That doesn't follow at all.
Phat writes:
Otherwise, you have no place to "tell" believers what they are expected to follow.
Nonsense. It's plainly written what believers are expected to follow. Your refusal to follow is evidence that you're not a sincere follower.
Phat writes:
I'm telling you that if you argue that God exists for me, He darn well exists for you regardless of your belief.
But I DON'T argue that God exists for you. Quite the opposite. I argue that God DOESN'T really exist for you, or you would do what He wants you to do.
Phat writes:
God is objective. God is NOT relative to the individual.
That's still just empty rhetoric. God is NOT objective, by any stretch of the immagination - or there wouldn't be so many versions of "God". God is DEFINITELY relative to the individual - or there wouldn't be so many versions of "God".
Phat writes:
Throw that belief away!
YOU throw away your empty rhetoric and make a reasoned argument.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3142 by Phat, posted 08-26-2022 12:22 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 3170 of 3207 (897075)
08-29-2022 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 3145 by Phat
08-26-2022 3:49 PM


Re: Monsters Under The Bed
Phat writes:
I understand him. He claims that the character does not exist apart from the book.
But that is NOT the point. The point has nothing to do with whether or not Jesus ever existed.
The point is about what YOU believe (And conversely what I do NOT believe.)
The point is that IF you really believed in Jesus, you would do what He said; you would TRUST Him to take care of you even if what He told you to do was impractical.
You not only do not DO what He said; you SCOFF at what He said. When you scoff at the idea of giving it all up, you are actually scoffing at the idea of Him taking care of you; you are scoffing at Him.
And, of course, what He told YOU to do has nothing to do with ME. YOUR belief would direct what YOU do, if you really believed it. YOUR belief does not direct what I do.
I'm running out of different ways to say it. I may have to learn Spanish. Maybe you could understand that.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3145 by Phat, posted 08-26-2022 3:49 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 3171 of 3207 (897076)
08-29-2022 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 3149 by Phat
08-27-2022 2:09 AM


Re: Monsters Under The Bed
Phat writes:
Now, on the other hand, you *could* claim that Christians have been monstrous and evil, but for every bad instance you gave, I could show a good one.
Hitler loved his dog.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3149 by Phat, posted 08-27-2022 2:09 AM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 3172 of 3207 (897077)
08-29-2022 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 3154 by Phat
08-27-2022 7:43 AM


Re: Monsters Under The Bed
Phat writes:
I am talking about Jesus onward...not the OT God.
As i have pointed out to you before, Jesus talked about eternal punishment (Matthew 25), so you can't get Him off the hook that easily.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3154 by Phat, posted 08-27-2022 7:43 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3174 by Phat, posted 09-01-2022 3:47 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 3173 of 3207 (897078)
08-29-2022 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 3159 by Phat
08-27-2022 12:03 PM


Re: Monsters Under The Bed
Phat writes:
The basic premise is that the yardstick is not the OT God (or written descriptions thereof) but Jesus Himself.
Matthew 25. Your basic premise fails. Therefore your argument fails.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3159 by Phat, posted 08-27-2022 12:03 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 3175 of 3207 (897264)
09-01-2022 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 3174 by Phat
09-01-2022 3:47 AM


Re: Monsters: Its All In Your Head
Phat writes:
How do you know that Jesus was speaking to the people?
I know because I read the Bible:
quote:
Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately....
No demons.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3174 by Phat, posted 09-01-2022 3:47 AM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 3183 of 3207 (897993)
09-17-2022 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 3176 by EWolf
09-16-2022 8:19 PM


EWolf writes:
Why did He give His life ...?
He didn't "give" His life. It was taken - because He ran His mouth a bit too much. He tried to be clever, claiming and not claiming to be King of the Jews - but He didn't fool the Jews.
EWolf writes:
Isn’t that the basis of why the US separated from England to create a nation whose laws are based on the Bible?
No.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3176 by EWolf, posted 09-16-2022 8:19 PM EWolf has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3184 by Phat, posted 09-17-2022 4:00 PM ringo has replied
 Message 3190 by Dredge, posted 10-19-2022 4:11 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 3186 of 3207 (898081)
09-18-2022 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 3184 by Phat
09-17-2022 4:00 PM


Re: wrong spirit
Phat writes:
Now who is lying? You know darn well He gave His life!
NO I do NOT. His life was TAKEN by force.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3184 by Phat, posted 09-17-2022 4:00 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3187 by Phat, posted 09-19-2022 1:16 AM ringo has replied

  
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