Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,819 Year: 3,076/9,624 Month: 921/1,588 Week: 104/223 Day: 2/13 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   I Know That God Does Not Exist
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 3121 of 3207 (896863)
08-24-2022 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 3120 by ringo
08-24-2022 12:15 PM


Re: Monsters Under The Bed
God is not monster. It is you who is being dishonest
You know darn well that none of your friends are being fried.
And you Also know that none of the dead baby arguments
hold any water.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3120 by ringo, posted 08-24-2022 12:15 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3122 by Theodoric, posted 08-24-2022 2:40 PM Phat has replied
 Message 3123 by ringo, posted 08-24-2022 3:10 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 3124 of 3207 (896866)
08-24-2022 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 3123 by ringo
08-24-2022 3:10 PM


Re: Monsters Under The Bed
I have heard hundreds of preachers say that the "unsaved" will suffer eternal torment. You're the one who is trying to whitewash the evil God that you have created.
Stop and think. Why would I create an evil God? The God I worship existed long before you or me Second, just because some preacher brayed that the unsaved will suffer eternal torment, I (being Christian) would pray about it. Actually lay out my fears before God. You claimed that you were once Christian as I am. If so, why do you keep referring back to the character in the book as if He were static and unapproachable? No sane group of people would worship a character in a book if that character was not somehow or in some way alive to them. (and for them) As for the OT vengeful God, note that all manners of death were done by humans. It is humans who are responsible...not God. The same applies today. No nation can simply blame God for what they did in a war.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3123 by ringo, posted 08-24-2022 3:10 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3127 by ringo, posted 08-24-2022 3:43 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 3125 of 3207 (896867)
08-24-2022 3:22 PM
Reply to: Message 3122 by Theodoric
08-24-2022 2:40 PM


Re: Monsters Under The Bed
So you believe your god dude wants babies to die horrible deaths?
Where did I ever say that?

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3122 by Theodoric, posted 08-24-2022 2:40 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3126 by Theodoric, posted 08-24-2022 3:39 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 3128 of 3207 (896871)
08-24-2022 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 3126 by Theodoric
08-24-2022 3:39 PM


Re: Monsters Under The Bed
Thats a free will problem. God does not control what anyone does. Nor should He, in my opinion.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3126 by Theodoric, posted 08-24-2022 3:39 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3129 by Theodoric, posted 08-24-2022 6:55 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 3130 of 3207 (896888)
08-25-2022 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 3127 by ringo
08-24-2022 3:43 PM


Re: Monsters Under The Bed
When did you ever hear of humans using a lake of fire as a murder weapon?
The Lake Of Fire was created for Satan and the fallen angels. If anyone gets "murdered" it would be them, though my understanding is that they dont die.
Why are you so worried about a monster God who fries your friends? All they have to do is quit following the demons around getting seduced by them *cough* alcohol *cough* and they will never get near such a Lake.
Or are you afraid that the only way to steer clear of such a Lake is to be forced to follow Jesus!
You want a life where you are free to choose following nobody and sticking with your human friends.
And yet you worry that your friends are getting fried. Paranoid much?

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3127 by ringo, posted 08-24-2022 3:43 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3131 by ringo, posted 08-25-2022 12:08 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 3132 of 3207 (896892)
08-25-2022 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 3131 by ringo
08-25-2022 12:08 PM


Re: Monsters Under The Bed
ringo writes:
Do I need to go on?
Not at all. You have framed my response perfectly.
Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Ask yourself if any of your "friends" have those qualities. I am destined for the Lake according to being a worker of inequity.
Mr.Dictionary writes:
Injustice; unfairness.An instance of injustice or unfairness.Lack of equity or abstract justice; disagreement with equitable principles; injustice; also, an unjust action or proceeding.
I always complain about how unfair life is, but by holding back, I myself am a worker of inequity.
Unlike you, however, I don't limit my perception and definition of this "God character" as what's in the book. I've never seen Jesus (God's character) as a monster.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3131 by ringo, posted 08-25-2022 12:08 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3134 by ringo, posted 08-25-2022 12:44 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 3133 of 3207 (896893)
08-25-2022 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 3131 by ringo
08-25-2022 12:08 PM


Re: Monsters Under The Bed
ringo writes:
How could I possibly NOT be concerned about a monster criminal who fries ANYBODY?
Are you opposed to capital punishment? Would you defend Hitler? If possible, would you be the defense attorney for Lucifer?

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3131 by ringo, posted 08-25-2022 12:08 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3135 by ringo, posted 08-25-2022 12:47 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 3136 of 3207 (896896)
08-25-2022 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 3135 by ringo
08-25-2022 12:47 PM


Re: Monsters Under The Bed
ringo writes:
Do you have a point?
Yes. Why can't you defend God instead of labeling Him a "Monster"?

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3135 by ringo, posted 08-25-2022 12:47 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3138 by ringo, posted 08-25-2022 1:06 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 3148 by AZPaul3, posted 08-27-2022 1:45 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 3137 of 3207 (896897)
08-25-2022 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 3134 by ringo
08-25-2022 12:44 PM


Re: Monsters Under The Bed
ringo writes:
In Message 3130 you claimed that "The Lake Of Fire was created for Satan and the fallen angels." I pointed out that you were dead wrong.
God never sends any human to hell. humans send themselves there. One way is by making the wrong choice. God DID prepare a place for the fallen angels, who previously made their own choice.
ringo writes:
You've deliberately made up a Jesus who is not a monster.
Show me how the character in the book, Jesus Christ, is in any way a monster.
ringo writes:
Your Jesus does not exist outside your own head.
Well, *your* Jesus only exists in the book and is nowhere near your head.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3134 by ringo, posted 08-25-2022 12:44 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3139 by ringo, posted 08-25-2022 1:14 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 3142 of 3207 (896913)
08-26-2022 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 3141 by ringo
08-26-2022 11:43 AM


Re: Monsters Under The Bed
You do nearly the same thing. One minute you quote Chapter and Verse about what Jesus told his followers to do while the next moment you argue that Jesus never existed the way He is presented in organized religion.
There is but a single standard. If God exists as Father/Son//Holy Spirit in the book and believers are expected to follow such a God then God exists for everyone. Otherwise, you have no place to "tell" believers what they are expected to follow. And dont give me the whole Bilbo Baggins/Long John Silver argument. I'm telling you that if you argue that God exists for me, He darn well exists for you regardless of your belief.
God is objective. God is NOT relative to the individual. Throw that belief away!

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3141 by ringo, posted 08-26-2022 11:43 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3143 by ringo, posted 08-26-2022 1:08 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 3144 by Theodoric, posted 08-26-2022 3:05 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 3145 of 3207 (896917)
08-26-2022 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 3144 by Theodoric
08-26-2022 3:05 PM


Re: Monsters Under The Bed
After all this time you still do not understand what Ringo is saying? Wow!
I understand him. He claims that the character does not exist apart from the book.
If I asked him where the character existed before the book was written, he may claim that the character was in the imagination of the author.
Yet if I suggested that the inspiration for the writing came from God to the authors, he would scoff.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3144 by Theodoric, posted 08-26-2022 3:05 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3146 by AZPaul3, posted 08-26-2022 4:55 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 3147 by nwr, posted 08-26-2022 4:58 PM Phat has replied
 Message 3170 by ringo, posted 08-29-2022 12:08 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 3149 of 3207 (896941)
08-27-2022 2:09 AM
Reply to: Message 3147 by nwr
08-26-2022 4:58 PM


Re: Monsters Under The Bed
nwr writes:
And why would that be a problem for you?
Because you cant have it both ways. You cant claim that GOD and Jesus were limited to characters in a book and then also claim that GOD was a Monster. The Big Bad Wolf was a monster. Yet we all know that its just a story.
Now, on the other hand, you *could* claim that Christians have been monstrous and evil, but for every bad instance you gave, I could show a good one.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3147 by nwr, posted 08-26-2022 4:58 PM nwr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3151 by Tangle, posted 08-27-2022 2:53 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 3155 by nwr, posted 08-27-2022 8:56 AM Phat has replied
 Message 3157 by Theodoric, posted 08-27-2022 11:55 AM Phat has replied
 Message 3171 by ringo, posted 08-29-2022 12:11 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 3150 of 3207 (896942)
08-27-2022 2:11 AM
Reply to: Message 3148 by AZPaul3
08-27-2022 1:45 AM


Re: Monsters Under The Bed
AZAntiTheist3 writes:
Because he is a known proven monster. Just read his fuckin book.
For most Christians, GOD is Jesus. Jesus is God's character. And I don't see Him doing Evil things. But then again, maybe your demons have you convinced.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3148 by AZPaul3, posted 08-27-2022 1:45 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3152 by AZPaul3, posted 08-27-2022 3:19 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 3153 by dwise1, posted 08-27-2022 5:09 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 3154 of 3207 (896949)
08-27-2022 7:43 AM
Reply to: Message 3153 by dwise1
08-27-2022 5:09 AM


Re: Monsters Under The Bed
I see your line of thought and agree, but again, I am talking about Jesus onward...not the OT God.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3153 by dwise1, posted 08-27-2022 5:09 AM dwise1 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3172 by ringo, posted 08-29-2022 12:16 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 3156 of 3207 (896951)
08-27-2022 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 3155 by nwr
08-27-2022 8:56 AM


Re: Monsters Under The Bed
Yet everybody knows that the story of the Big Bad Wolf and Little Red Riding Hood is a story that is a Fable. Not everyone by any means agrees that the Bible is similar to Fable or Mythos. And there are compelling arguments both ways.
I reread and see Tangles' point that it doesn't really matter--that you can still point out the character flaws while holding to the idea that it is all a Fable. Which brings up a memory. I used to listen to Dr.Charles Stanley, a conservative Pastor/Preacher on the radio and hear him always lift up Jesus and tell me how special that relationship was to any Christian. Then 9-11 happened. And I couldn't believe that Dr.Stanley was now talking of his boyhood during Pearl Harbor and essentially saying that war was OK and often necessary.

Edited by Phat, .


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3155 by nwr, posted 08-27-2022 8:56 AM nwr has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3158 by Theodoric, posted 08-27-2022 11:58 AM Phat has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024