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Author Topic:   Coffee House Musings on Creationist Topic Proposals
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 723 of 1429 (896834)
08-23-2022 10:40 PM
Reply to: Message 709 by Tanypteryx
08-18-2022 12:16 AM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Please provide an example of how the theory of universal common descent has proven useful in medicine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 709 by Tanypteryx, posted 08-18-2022 12:16 AM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 725 by dwise1, posted 08-23-2022 10:53 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 726 by Tanypteryx, posted 08-23-2022 11:02 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 724 of 1429 (896835)
08-23-2022 10:44 PM
Reply to: Message 721 by ringo
08-23-2022 11:53 AM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Dredge writes:
YEC would use science to develop vaccines like any other scientist would.
ringo writes:
But they don't. Why not? Because they reject the science that they need to produce anything useful.
Which useful medical science do YECs reject?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 721 by ringo, posted 08-23-2022 11:53 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 736 by ringo, posted 08-24-2022 11:51 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 728 of 1429 (896839)
08-24-2022 12:20 AM
Reply to: Message 726 by Tanypteryx
08-23-2022 11:02 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Dredge writes:
Please provide an example of how the theory of universal common descent has proven useful in medicine.
Tanypteryx writes:
Easy, all the mammals that are used to model human medical conditions, rather than fish or mollusks, because they are quite obviously more closely related to humans.
Even the village idiot would expect non-human mammals to more closely model human conditions than mollusks or fish.
You don't need the theory of UCD to figure out that mammals are "more closely related to humans" physiologically than mollusks or fish.
No one tried using insulin or thyroids from other mammals to treat human diseases before they knew we are related.
How do you know what they tried? They probably experimented with lots of different mammals before simply choosing those that worked best ... trial and error ... nothing to do with the theory of UCD.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 726 by Tanypteryx, posted 08-23-2022 11:02 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 730 by Tanypteryx, posted 08-24-2022 12:53 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 737 by ringo, posted 08-24-2022 12:01 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 738 by Tanypteryx, posted 08-24-2022 1:44 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 729 of 1429 (896840)
08-24-2022 12:24 AM
Reply to: Message 725 by dwise1
08-23-2022 10:53 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Sounds like I can safely assume that you yourself can't provide an example of how the theory of universal common descent has proven useful in medicine.
I thought you were an expert on evolution ...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 725 by dwise1, posted 08-23-2022 10:53 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 731 of 1429 (896842)
08-24-2022 2:04 AM
Reply to: Message 730 by Tanypteryx
08-24-2022 12:53 AM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Your arguments are so weak that the village idiot shot them all down in flames.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 730 by Tanypteryx, posted 08-24-2022 12:53 AM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 732 by Tanypteryx, posted 08-24-2022 2:46 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 734 by Tanypteryx, posted 08-24-2022 11:39 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 733 of 1429 (896845)
08-24-2022 6:52 AM
Reply to: Message 732 by Tanypteryx
08-24-2022 2:46 AM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
No one's ever called me "dilutional" before.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 732 by Tanypteryx, posted 08-24-2022 2:46 AM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 740 of 1429 (896873)
08-24-2022 8:45 PM
Reply to: Message 736 by ringo
08-24-2022 11:51 AM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
ringo writes:
Common descent. Your denial doesn't work. Creationists' rejection of common descent has prevented them from doing any useful medical research.
How does denying the theory of universal common descent prevent "useful medical research"?
Your denial doesn't work.
I don't recall denying universal common descent. My position is, I neither deny UCD nor accept it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 736 by ringo, posted 08-24-2022 11:51 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 741 by Theodoric, posted 08-24-2022 9:07 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 752 by ringo, posted 08-25-2022 11:41 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 742 of 1429 (896875)
08-24-2022 9:21 PM
Reply to: Message 734 by Tanypteryx
08-24-2022 11:39 AM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Tanypteryx writes:
meanwhile we have museums and libraries full of supporting evidence and you have a fictional book written by a bunch of bronze age Jewish goat herders.
What does any of that have to do with whether or not the theory of UCD has proven useful in the field of medicine?
Is strawmaning really the best you can do?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 734 by Tanypteryx, posted 08-24-2022 11:39 AM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 743 by Tanypteryx, posted 08-24-2022 9:29 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 744 of 1429 (896877)
08-24-2022 9:53 PM
Reply to: Message 737 by ringo
08-24-2022 12:01 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Dredge writes:
You don't need the theory of UCD to figure out that mammals are "more closely related to humans" physiologically than mollusks or fish.
ringo writes:
You contradict yourself. We're related but we're not related?
No contradiction. According to taxonomy and physiology, humans are obviously more closely "related" to other mammals than they are to
non-mammals like mollusks and fish ... regardless of being "related" according to the theory of UCD.
"Trial and error" would require a lot of errors. "Here, George, try some octopus insulin. If it kills you, we'll try salmon on the next guy."
A scientist with any common sense would first experiment with insulin from mammals. ... no need for the theory UCD.
Why would anyone experiment with octopus or fish insulin if they were considered toxic to humans?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 737 by ringo, posted 08-24-2022 12:01 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 753 by ringo, posted 08-25-2022 11:46 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 785 by Taq, posted 08-30-2022 11:30 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 745 of 1429 (896878)
08-24-2022 10:18 PM
Reply to: Message 738 by Tanypteryx
08-24-2022 1:44 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Dredge writes:
You don't need the theory of UCD to figure out that mammals are "more closely related to humans" physiologically than mollusks or fish.
Tanypteryx writes:
YOU may not need it, but WE have that knowledge and find it quite useful.
In what way has the so-called knowledge of UCD been found to be "useful" in medicine?
It is interesting that even the village idiot recognizes the obvious evolutionary relatedness of humans with other vertebrates, mammals, placentals, and apes, and the more distant relatedness with all the invertebrates.
A human's "evolutionary relatedness" to invertebrates is based on a theory ... as opposed to human "relatedness" to other mammals according to morphology and physiology, which is based on facts.
Correction: A human's "evolutionary relatedness" to invertebrates is a theory

Edited by Dredge, .


This message is a reply to:
 Message 738 by Tanypteryx, posted 08-24-2022 1:44 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 747 by Tanypteryx, posted 08-24-2022 10:35 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 746 of 1429 (896879)
08-24-2022 10:32 PM
Reply to: Message 739 by Stile
08-24-2022 3:38 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Stile writes:
No one NEEDS a hammer to drive in a nail.
But it certainly does make it a lot easier to USE the proper tool for the job.
Which "job" in the field of medicine has been made "a lot easier" by the theory of UCD?
UCD is the nail-gun of evolution - the best tool for the job that's ever been invented
Evolution is defined as a change in allele frequency within a population.
So please explain how "UCD is the nail-gun of evolution".
Spend your time ruining your pliers and screwdrivers trying to hammer nails all you want.
We'll use the nail-gun and complete 100 projects to your 1.
Sure ... if by "projects" you mean useless bed-time stories from Darwinist folklore about what might have happened millions of years ago.
But if by "projects" you mean medical applications, it appears UCD has accomplished zilch.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 739 by Stile, posted 08-24-2022 3:38 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 751 by Stile, posted 08-25-2022 8:17 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 748 of 1429 (896881)
08-24-2022 10:56 PM
Reply to: Message 747 by Tanypteryx
08-24-2022 10:35 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Tanypteryx writes:
That is incorrect. It is based in the same biology that tells us our evolutionary relationships to the vertebrates.
Thank you for the correction. What I should have said is, "evolutionary relatedness" is a theory.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 747 by Tanypteryx, posted 08-24-2022 10:35 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 754 by ringo, posted 08-25-2022 11:51 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 749 of 1429 (896882)
08-24-2022 11:02 PM
Reply to: Message 747 by Tanypteryx
08-24-2022 10:35 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Tanypteryx writes:
You have already been give numerous examples, that you ignore.
Please b advised that no one has yet provided an example of how UCD hss proven useful in medicine.
All that has been provided thus far is lame Darwinist propaganda.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 747 by Tanypteryx, posted 08-24-2022 10:35 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 750 by Tanypteryx, posted 08-25-2022 12:03 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 757 of 1429 (896907)
08-25-2022 11:23 PM
Reply to: Message 555 by ringo
08-04-2022 12:14 PM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
Depletion deletion

Edited by Dredge, .


This message is a reply to:
 Message 555 by ringo, posted 08-04-2022 12:14 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 758 by AZPaul3, posted 08-25-2022 11:48 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 759 by dwise1, posted 08-26-2022 4:58 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 760 by Admin, posted 08-26-2022 6:01 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 761 by AZPaul3, posted 08-26-2022 6:46 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 762 of 1429 (896933)
08-26-2022 10:25 PM
Reply to: Message 758 by AZPaul3
08-25-2022 11:48 PM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
AZPaul3 writes:
Not mysterious magic ... DNA ... but, yeah that's about right, give or take a detail or two
A typically simplistic and inadequate Darwinist explanation. Sure, DNA determines and thus can alter morpholgy, but that does nothing to explain how natural selection and what environmental pressures acted to remove the entire pelvis from the spine of the whale's alleged evolutionary ancestor (something like Pakicetus) and relocate it elsewhere in the body.
Nor does DNA explain how natural selection and what environmental pressures acted to disconnect the tail from original pelvis and attach it to the spine (as in a modern whale or dophin).
Even to the most science-hardened Darwinist, such evolutionary transitions must seem magical. (I completely understand why no evolutionary scientist would want to avoid discussing such matters ... too baffling and perhaps too close to divine intervention.)
As far as I know, there is no evidence whatsoever of a pelvis between the spine and tail of any modern whale or dolphin.
Your "I don't know ... DNA done it" explanation is more scientific than the "I don't know ... God done it" explanation, but not by much.
a meat-cracker gourmand it may be impossible but for the intelligent of our species who study these things it's easy to understand. Easy as a piece of tail. And when it comes to believing between you and them I'll go with them.
I take your point and I thank you for the correction.
To a layman simply looking at photos and diagrams, there seems to be no distinction between the spine and tail of most whales and dolphins.
In the case of a sperm whale, however, there is a very obvious distinction between its spine and tail ... and not only that, the alleged vestigial (remote) pelvis is located close to the spine/tail junction.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 758 by AZPaul3, posted 08-25-2022 11:48 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 764 by xongsmith, posted 08-26-2022 11:09 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 765 by AZPaul3, posted 08-26-2022 11:45 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 777 by dwise1, posted 08-28-2022 1:06 AM Dredge has replied

  
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