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Author Topic:   Coffee House Musings on Creationist Topic Proposals
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 707 of 1429 (896726)
08-17-2022 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 685 by Dredge
08-16-2022 6:52 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Dredge writes:
What a pity you can't cite a dictionary that supports your hill-billy version of the English language.
Show us one that supports your no-uncertainty-whatsoever version.
Dredge writes:
If someone claims to "know" something, it means something like "I know it to be fact".
A lot of people, like you, claim to "know something to be a fact" when they're dead wrong, like you.
Argument from popularity is no more valid than argument from dictionary.

"Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt."
-- motto of the Special Olympians

This message is a reply to:
 Message 685 by Dredge, posted 08-16-2022 6:52 PM Dredge has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 720 of 1429 (896814)
08-23-2022 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 718 by Dredge
08-22-2022 9:55 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Dredge writes:
Scientists would have thought of experimenting with insulin from non-human animals with or without the theory of universal common descent.
They would coulda shoulda. But they didn't? Why not?
And why didn't YECs think of it? Why doesn't YEC "science" produce ANYTHING useful?" For the same reason flat-earth 'science" didn't take us to the moon: garbage in, garbage out.

"Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt."
-- motto of the Special Olympians

This message is a reply to:
 Message 718 by Dredge, posted 08-22-2022 9:55 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 722 by Dredge, posted 08-23-2022 10:33 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 721 of 1429 (896815)
08-23-2022 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 717 by Dredge
08-22-2022 9:05 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Dredge writes:
A YEC would use science to develop vaccines like any other scientist would.
But they don't. Why not? Because they reject the science that they need to produce anything useful.

"Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt."
-- motto of the Special Olympians

This message is a reply to:
 Message 717 by Dredge, posted 08-22-2022 9:05 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 724 by Dredge, posted 08-23-2022 10:44 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 735 of 1429 (896848)
08-24-2022 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 722 by Dredge
08-23-2022 10:33 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Dredge writes:
Your questions have nothing to do with whether or not the theory of u.common descent has proven useful in medicine.
The only thing wrong with my questions is that you can't answer them. Why haven't creationists come up with any useful medical results?

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 722 by Dredge, posted 08-23-2022 10:33 PM Dredge has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 736 of 1429 (896849)
08-24-2022 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 724 by Dredge
08-23-2022 10:44 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Dredge writes:
Which useful medical science do YECs reject?
Common descent. Your denial doesn't work. Creationists' rejection of common descent has prevented them from doing any useful medical research.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 724 by Dredge, posted 08-23-2022 10:44 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 740 by Dredge, posted 08-24-2022 8:45 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 737 of 1429 (896852)
08-24-2022 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 728 by Dredge
08-24-2022 12:20 AM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Dredge writes:
You don't need the theory of UCD to figure out that mammals are "more closely related to humans" physiologically than mollusks or fish.
You contradict yourself. We're related but we're not related?
Dredge writes:
They probably experimented with lots of different mammals before simply choosing those that worked best ... trial and error ... nothing to do with the theory of UCD.
Show us your probability calculations.
"Trial and error" would require a lot of errors. "Here, George, try some octopus insulin. If it kills you, we'll try salmon on the next guy."

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 728 by Dredge, posted 08-24-2022 12:20 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 744 by Dredge, posted 08-24-2022 9:53 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 752 of 1429 (896886)
08-25-2022 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 740 by Dredge
08-24-2022 8:45 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Dredge writes:
How does denying the theory of universal common descent prevent "useful medical research"?
It doesn't matter "how". The fact is that creationists DON'T do any useful medical research. If you think it isn't because they deny science, go ahead and propose an alternative reason.
Dredge writes:
I don't recall denying universal common descent. My position is, I neither deny UCD nor accept it.
You might as well say you neither deny gravity nor accept it. It's a foolish position to take. You are not educated enough to question science and nobody cares whether you accept it or not.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 740 by Dredge, posted 08-24-2022 8:45 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 790 by Dredge, posted 08-31-2022 6:54 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 753 of 1429 (896887)
08-25-2022 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 744 by Dredge
08-24-2022 9:53 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Dredge writes:
No contradiction. According to taxonomy and physiology, humans are obviously more closely "related" to other mammals than they are to
non-mammals like mollusks and fish ... regardless of being "related" according to the theory of UCD.
Again. you're contradicting yourself. If they're "obviously more closely related" then they're related. And if they're "more" closely related to other mammals than to mollusks and fish then they're also related to mollusks and fish.
Dredge writes:
A scientist with any common sense would first experiment with insulin from mammals. ... no need for the theory UCD.
That IS the theory of UCD.
Dredge writes:
Why would anyone experiment with octopus or fish insulin if they were considered toxic to humans?
Why would anybody deny science? Stupidity, I guess.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 744 by Dredge, posted 08-24-2022 9:53 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 796 by Dredge, posted 09-01-2022 10:49 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 754 of 1429 (896889)
08-25-2022 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 748 by Dredge
08-24-2022 10:56 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Dredge writes:
What I should have said is, "evolutionary relatedness" is a theory.
And a theory is an explanation of the facts. No facts --> no theory. That's mathematics, boy. You can't argue with mathematics.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 748 by Dredge, posted 08-24-2022 10:56 PM Dredge has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 755 by nwr, posted 08-25-2022 12:13 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied
 Message 756 by dwise1, posted 08-25-2022 1:47 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 783 of 1429 (897082)
08-29-2022 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 780 by AZPaul3
08-28-2022 1:57 AM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
AZPaul3 writes:
those god-meat crackers are not good for you. They screw up your brain
BSE!

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 780 by AZPaul3, posted 08-28-2022 1:57 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 784 by AZPaul3, posted 08-29-2022 2:31 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 793 of 1429 (897217)
08-31-2022 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 786 by Dredge
08-31-2022 12:26 AM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Dredge writes:
But if by "relatedness of life", you mean the theory of UCD ... no, that theory is irrelevant and useless to medicine.
How would the village idiot know that? Show us a dozen examples of medical researchers telling us that.
Dredge writes:
For some strange reason, you seem incapable of separating useful facts from a useless theory that attempts to explain why those facts exist.
You seem to be incapable of understanding that we have a vast network of facts, all inter-connected. You can't accept one from here and one from there and reject some others that you don't like. If A is connected to B and B is connected to C and so on down the line, then you can't claim that A is not connected to Z.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 786 by Dredge, posted 08-31-2022 12:26 AM Dredge has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 794 of 1429 (897218)
08-31-2022 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 790 by Dredge
08-31-2022 6:54 AM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Dredge writes:
So please cite an example of how creationists' rejection of the theory of UCD "prevented them from doing any useful medical research" ...
Been there; done that. Creationists have not produced any vaccines. It doesn't matter "why" they haven't. All that matters is results. They have failed to produce any medical advances because they reject science. It doesn't even matter what science they reject. Rejecting ANY science will always be a stumbling block for them.
Dredge writes:
... lest your claim be filed under "bullshit".
I'm not worried about that. I couldn't care less where YOU file it, Mr. Bullshit.
Dredge writes:
Whether creationists have done any useful medical research or not is irrelevant to the question of whether or not UCD has proven useful in medicine.
And the fact that flat-earthers have never walked on the moon has nothing to do with their rejection of science? There seems to be a gap (i.e. a vast gaping chasm) in your logic.
Dredge writes:
No matter the level of education, no one can prove/ demonstrate/confirm that UCD is a fact ... which sounds like a perfectly good reason to neither deny nor accept the theory of UCD.
But it HAS been demonstrated/confirmed to the satisfaction of anybody who is intelligent enough to understand. If one dimwit (you) is too dopey to understand, that doesn't demolish the understanding of everybody else.
Dredge writes:
Believing that UCD is a fact doesn't make it a fact.
There's no belief involved.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 790 by Dredge, posted 08-31-2022 6:54 AM Dredge has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 798 of 1429 (897303)
09-02-2022 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 796 by Dredge
09-01-2022 10:49 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Dredge writes:
Nonsense.
Who are you to judge what is nonsense. You're a self-admitted idiot.
Dredge writes:
Humans are mammals, so anyone with half a brain...
But you have less than half a brain.
Dredge writes:
... would figure that insulin from other mammals would likely work better than insulin from non-mammals like mollusks or fish
And yet they DON'T. That's what you keep missing. Creationists DON'T use that supposed knowledge for any useful purpose.
Your claim is the equivalent of saying that wings have nothing to do with their ability to fly. My point is that elephants DON'T have wings and they can't fly so it seems reasonable to conclude that flying is related to wings.
Dredge writes:
Do try and awaken from your stupor.
Do try to remember who's the idiot here, you idiot.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 796 by Dredge, posted 09-01-2022 10:49 PM Dredge has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 808 of 1429 (899007)
10-06-2022 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 805 by Dredge
10-06-2022 1:01 AM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
Dredge writes:
This is your best explanation for how the ilia and hind legs completely detached themselves separated from the sacrum?
We just had an item on the news the other day about a pod of orcas attacking a couple of humpback whales.
If the humpbacks were still dragging hind legs around, their swimming would have been hampered and they would have been eaten. That's natural selection at its best.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 805 by Dredge, posted 10-06-2022 1:01 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 809 by Dredge, posted 10-06-2022 3:41 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 810 of 1429 (899025)
10-06-2022 10:02 PM
Reply to: Message 809 by Dredge
10-06-2022 3:41 PM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
Dredge writes:
If the whales still had legs they could escape the orca's by climbing out of the water on to land.
There's no way a whale can support its own weight on land.
Dredge writes:
Ever seen an otter swim? They're incredibly fast and agile ... yep, their hind legs really slow them down! Furthermore, otters don't use their front legs for swimming at all.
Your idea of amphibious whales does not compare with otters. They evolved on different pathways.
Dredge writes:
What "environmental pressures" produced the complete separation of the ilia (along with the hindlegs) from the sacrum of the land mammal (the alleged evolutionary ancestor of whales)?
Predators.
By going into the water, they escaped from land predators. And by losing their legs, they escaped from aquatic predators.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 809 by Dredge, posted 10-06-2022 3:41 PM Dredge has not replied

  
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