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Author Topic:   I Know That God Does Not Exist
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 2896 of 3207 (896384)
08-07-2022 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 2892 by Phat
08-07-2022 3:32 PM


Re: I Dont Care About Proving The Absence of God.
Death makes every atheist know that, not only were their arguments wrong, they're not atheists anymore.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2892 by Phat, posted 08-07-2022 3:32 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2899 by AZPaul3, posted 08-07-2022 4:41 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 2897 of 3207 (896385)
08-07-2022 4:18 PM
Reply to: Message 2892 by Phat
08-07-2022 3:32 PM


Re: I Dont Care About Proving The Absence of God.
Deleted

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2892 by Phat, posted 08-07-2022 3:32 PM Phat has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 2898 of 3207 (896386)
08-07-2022 4:26 PM
Reply to: Message 2895 by Dredge
08-07-2022 4:10 PM


I don't recall making that claim.
When you say “God does not exist” is laughable that means you have some proof (your kind of proof that the rest of us might call evidence) to sustain that view.
If you agreed with the statement you would have no objection, but you have reason ("proof" in your world) to challenge it. So this means you have proof your version of god really actually exists, right?
So show me.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2895 by Dredge, posted 08-07-2022 4:10 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2900 by Dredge, posted 08-07-2022 5:16 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 2899 of 3207 (896387)
08-07-2022 4:41 PM
Reply to: Message 2896 by Dredge
08-07-2022 4:15 PM


Re: I Dont Care About Proving The Absence of God.
Death makes every atheist know that, not only were their arguments wrong, they're not atheists anymore.
If that should happen then that will be the reality of the universe and I will be bobbing like a buoy on the lake of fire for all eternity.
But all the evidence of the universe say yours is an un-evidenced, illogical, unsupportable fiction. Tooth Fairy class. No need for concern.
I know you feel in your heart there has got to be a god real bad. But that may be a gastronomic issue with all those meat-crackers. Ease up there and see if your reality improves.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2896 by Dredge, posted 08-07-2022 4:15 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 2900 of 3207 (896388)
08-07-2022 5:16 PM
Reply to: Message 2898 by AZPaul3
08-07-2022 4:26 PM


AZPaul3 writes:
When you say “God does not exist” is laughable that means you have some proof (your kind of proof that the rest of us might call evidence) to sustain that view.
No, it doesn't mean that. No one can possibly prove that God doesn't exist, therefore to argue that "I know God does not exist" is a nonsense - this is true even if I can't prove that God does exist.
I understand that arguments based on simple logic are not your forte. For example, on another thread, you claim to "know" that ToE describes the process that produced the fossil record ... despite the fact that no one can possibly prove your claim correct. So your claim is as ridiculously illogical as Stile's claim that he knows God does not exist.
your kind of proof that the rest of us might call evidence
A curious comment. I suspect you're arguing that "evidence" is the same as "proof" ... in which case, wow.
(I hope you don't find yourself expressing such thoughts on a philosophy site ... you would get ripped to pieces.)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2898 by AZPaul3, posted 08-07-2022 4:26 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2901 by AZPaul3, posted 08-07-2022 5:38 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 2904 by AZPaul3, posted 08-07-2022 5:55 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 2909 by ringo, posted 08-08-2022 12:54 PM Dredge has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 2901 of 3207 (896390)
08-07-2022 5:38 PM
Reply to: Message 2900 by Dredge
08-07-2022 5:16 PM


(I hope you don't find yourself expressing such thoughts on a philosophy site ... you would get ripped to pieces.)
And rightfully so. I'm using the catholic definitions you keep insisting on and, frankly this is way stupid.
So, if you can't prove your god, which I will modify as you have no evidence for your god, then how is no evidence different from doesn't exist?
Unlike Sagan's aliens, this absence of evidence, given the supposed actions of your gods, does equal evidence of absence.
Just like the tooth fairy, no evidence = no fairy. No evidence = no god.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2900 by Dredge, posted 08-07-2022 5:16 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2972 by Dredge, posted 08-12-2022 8:38 PM AZPaul3 has not replied
 Message 2973 by Dredge, posted 08-12-2022 8:54 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 2902 of 3207 (896391)
08-07-2022 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 2890 by Dredge
08-07-2022 2:45 PM


Troll alert
Troll

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2890 by Dredge, posted 08-07-2022 2:45 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 2903 of 3207 (896392)
08-07-2022 5:44 PM
Reply to: Message 2892 by Phat
08-07-2022 3:32 PM


Wrong again
Basically, the argument here is that absence of evidence equals evidence of absence
Stile's argument is a bit more sophisticated than that, but not surprised that you were unable to grasp it.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2892 by Phat, posted 08-07-2022 3:32 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 2904 of 3207 (896394)
08-07-2022 5:55 PM
Reply to: Message 2900 by Dredge
08-07-2022 5:16 PM


No one can possibly prove that God doesn't exist
No one can possibly prove the ToE did not create the fossil record.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2900 by Dredge, posted 08-07-2022 5:16 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2974 by Dredge, posted 08-12-2022 8:59 PM AZPaul3 has not replied
 Message 2976 by Dredge, posted 08-12-2022 9:19 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 2905 of 3207 (896397)
08-07-2022 7:11 PM
Reply to: Message 2894 by Dredge
08-07-2022 4:07 PM


It's axiomatic that any argument that ends with "I know that God does not exist" is a stupid argument.
God is descibed as omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent. It can be argued that these three attributes are mutually incompatible. I'm sure I don't need to go over the details here, it's been done to death already. Anyway, that's one way we can know that God does not exist, if God is indeed supposed to have these three attributes simultaneously. Show me how this is a stupid argument, but with a proper counterargument instead of with a self-proclaimed yet unwarranted axiom.

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2894 by Dredge, posted 08-07-2022 4:07 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2975 by Dredge, posted 08-12-2022 9:17 PM Parasomnium has replied
 Message 3024 by Dredge, posted 08-14-2022 5:05 PM Parasomnium has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 2906 of 3207 (896417)
08-08-2022 12:38 PM
Reply to: Message 2890 by Dredge
08-07-2022 2:45 PM


Dredge writes:
You know that God does not exist?
I have argued against the OP in this thread. Go ahead and read my posts. There are only 570 of them and most of them are mercifully short.
Frankly (and I seldom admit this), I think i lost the argument. It was always a stretch. I think Style's claim that he knows God does not exist is much stronger than anybody else's claim that they know God does exist.
It was a worthwhile exercise. I like to skate on thin ice once in a while. I'm Canadian, so thin ice is my natural habitat.

"Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt."
-- motto of the Special Olympians

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2890 by Dredge, posted 08-07-2022 2:45 PM Dredge has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2907 of 3207 (896418)
08-08-2022 12:46 PM
Reply to: Message 2892 by Phat
08-07-2022 3:32 PM


Re: I Dont Care About Proving The Absence of God.
Phat writes:
Ringo even goes so far as to argue that the entire concept of God is relative to the individual.
That isn't "going far" at all. It's practically a given. You demonstrate that every time you throw the Jesus of the Bible away and replace it with your own "communed" version.
Phat writes:
I disagree because the relationship is a two-way street...
In the individual version that you have made up.
Phat writes:
... the still small voice whom I pray to and talk with, no non-Judeo Christian candidate is ever heard from.
But so many non-Judeo-Christians say the same thing about their individual gods.
And let's drop the Judeo part. Don't forget that the Jews also deny your version.
Phat writes:
I can explain more fully through audio conversation rather than this tedious chore of written argument.
You really can't. You might as well post a page from the phone book and call that an argument.

"Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt."
-- motto of the Special Olympians

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2892 by Phat, posted 08-07-2022 3:32 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 2908 of 3207 (896419)
08-08-2022 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 2894 by Dredge
08-07-2022 4:07 PM


Dredge writes:
It's axiomatic ....
People often claim something is "axiomatic" when they can't back it up.

"Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt."
-- motto of the Special Olympians

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2894 by Dredge, posted 08-07-2022 4:07 PM Dredge has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2910 by Theodoric, posted 08-08-2022 3:04 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(3)
Message 2909 of 3207 (896420)
08-08-2022 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 2900 by Dredge
08-07-2022 5:16 PM


Dredge writes:
No one can possibly prove that God doesn't exist....
Again, it isn't about proof. This thread is about weight of evidence. Stile's argument is that zero evidence is enough to decide he "knows". My attempted argument was that he doesn't "know" until he's finished looking.
ABE:
Dredge writes:
I suspect you're arguing that "evidence" is the same as "proof" ... in which case, wow.
Nobody is going to argue that. Science doesn't deal in proof. Evidence is infinitely more valuable than "proof".
Remember the goober who "proved" that bumblebees can't fly? And yet, we have evidence that they can.

"Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt."
-- motto of the Special Olympians

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2900 by Dredge, posted 08-07-2022 5:16 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2912 by Phat, posted 08-09-2022 4:39 PM ringo has replied
 Message 2977 by Dredge, posted 08-12-2022 9:42 PM ringo has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 2910 of 3207 (896424)
08-08-2022 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 2908 by ringo
08-08-2022 12:48 PM


Big words
I wonder if he even knows what the word means.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2908 by ringo, posted 08-08-2022 12:48 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2911 by ringo, posted 08-09-2022 11:42 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
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