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Author | Topic: Coffee House Musings on Creationist Topic Proposals | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Dredge Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Do you specialize in any area of the law?
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Dredge Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Percy writes:
This comment represents a degree of progress and thus, a glimmer of hope. More accurately, it is assumed that life in the past followed the same processes as life today. We know how evolution works because we can observe it in real time today.You've at least admitted that ToE is based, not on a fact, but on an assumption. Well done. There *is* a common creationist argument that life in the past was different from life today ... There is no evidence from the past, neither recent nor distant, that the processes of life were any different from today. If you think these processes were different in the past and at some point changed to the processes we observe today, what evidence are you looking at that tells you this, and when did the change happen?
I can't recall arguing that life in the past was different from life today.
We know exactly how evolution works because we observe it happening in the here and now.
I'm afraid not. You can't prove that known evolutionary mechanisms were responsible for producing the fossil record, therefore you can't claim to know how evolution works. Simple logic shoots your claim down in flames. Sorry.
In the sense that you're using the word "know," no, of course not. Everything in science is tentative. What we would actually say is that the theory of evolution provides a robust explanatory framework for the history of life as revealed by the fossil record.
Can you see how confused you are? You say "We know exactly how evolution works" and in the very next sentence in your post you admit that you don't "know" that life on earth evolved according to ToE.
Anyone constructively participating in an exchange of information would ask clarifying questions when a point fails to connect. You instead seem to be working hard at not understanding anything while confounding efforts to communicate using strategies such as making absurd comments about your IQ.
I don't recall "making absurd comments about [my] IQ." There is an almost-unanimous opinion on this thread that I am an idiot. I agree with that opinion, which, after all, is formed by individuals of exceptionally high intelligence.
Science doesn't prove things. As with everything in the universe, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, the way we see things happening today is the way they must have happened in the past.
No one has ever observed known evolutionary mechanisms ever producing even a new genera, so what we see happening today is a very poor explanation for what happened in the fossil record, where entire new phyla appear.
Do you have any evidence that life in the past didn't reproduce via the replication of genetic material and that the organisms that passed their genes on to the next generation passed through a selection process governed by the natural environment? In the absence of such evidence, the theory of evolution is the best we have for explaining the available evidence.
I agree that that theory of evolution is the best scientific explanation for the fossil record ... which however, doesn't permit anyone to claim to know how evolution works.
In the same way, no matter what the current state of an organism's genome, no matter how much prior change there's been, what could prevent more mutations from occurring? Nothing could prevent this, right? There's nothing that could lock down a genome and prevent further change. If the organism reproduces there will be change, right?
You can't prove, for example, that the genome of a fish eventually gave rise to the gemone of a mammal.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
ringo writes:
A shameful example of contextomy.
And your conclusion is obviously nonsensical. Our science cures diseases and puts men on the moon. No sensible person would call it irrelevant.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Percy writes:
This comment represents a degree of progress and thus, a glimmer of hope. You've at least admitted that ToE is based, not on a fact, but on an assumption. Well done.
More accurately, it is assumed that life in the past followed the same processes as life today. We know how evolution works because we can observe it in real time today.There *is* a common creationist argument that life in the past was different from life today ... There is no evidence from the past, neither recent nor distant, that the processes of life were any different from today. If you think these processes were different in the past and at some point changed to the processes we observe today, what evidence are you looking at that tells you this, and when did the change happen?
I can't recall arguing that life in the past was different from life today.
We know exactly how evolution works because we observe it happening in the here and now.
I'm afraid not. You can't prove that known evolutionary mechanisms were responsible for producing the fossil record, therefore you can't claim to know how evolution works. Simple logic shoots your claim down in flames. Sorry.
In the sense that you're using the word "know," no, of course not. Everything in science is tentative. What we would actually say is that the theory of evolution provides a robust explanatory framework for the history of life as revealed by the fossil record.
Can you see how confused you are? You say "We know exactly how evolution works" and in the very next sentence in your post you admit that you don't "know" that life on earth evolved according to ToE.
Anyone constructively participating in an exchange of information would ask clarifying questions when a point fails to connect. You instead seem to be working hard at not understanding anything while confounding efforts to communicate using strategies such as making absurd comments about your IQ.
I don't recall "making absurd comments about [my] IQ." There is an almost-unanimous opinion on this thread that I am an idiot. I agree with that opinion, which, after all, is formed by individuals of exceptionally high intelligence.
Science doesn't prove things. As with everything in the universe, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, the way we see things happening today is the way they must have happened in the past.
No one has ever observed known evolutionary mechanisms ever producing even a new genera, so what we see happening today is a very poor explanation for what happened in the fossil record, where entire new phyla appear.
Do you have any evidence that life in the past didn't reproduce via the replication of genetic material and that the organisms that passed their genes on to the next generation passed through a selection process governed by the natural environment? In the absence of such evidence, the theory of evolution is the best we have for explaining the available evidence.
I agree that that theory of evolution is the best scientific explanation for the fossil record ... which however, doesn't permit anyone to claim to know how evolution works.
In the same way, no matter what the current state of an organism's genome, no matter how much prior change there's been, what could prevent more mutations from occurring? Nothing could prevent this, right? There's nothing that could lock down a genome and prevent further change. If the organism reproduces there will be change, right?
You can't prove, for example, that the genome of a fish eventually gave rise to the gemone of a mammal. Edited by Dredge, .
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Dredge Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
AZPaul3 writes:
By "evolution" I don't necessarily mean a contiguos process of biological change.
We can close this thread now. Dredge agrees evolution happened.He's a Darwinist now.
Not even close ...
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Dredge Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Wow, what a superb rant!
It's your best one yet. Fascinating stuff.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Tangle writes:
And?
“ The Roman Catholic Church has long accepted – or at least not objected to – evolutionary theory. Pope Francis is not the first pontiff to publicly affirm that evolution is compatible with church teachings. In 1950, in the encyclical “Humani Generis,” Pope Pius XII said that Catholic teachings on creation could coexist with evolutionary theory. Pope John Paul II went a bit further in 1996, calling evolution “more than a hypothesis.”
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Dredge Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
AZPaul3 writes:
Incorrect. I don't deny the evidence ... in fact, I accept that ToE is the best scientific explanation for the fossil record.
Argument? What argument? All you do is knee-jerk deny all evidence and troll the emotion.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Message 364
AZPaul3 writes:
You’re a Darwinist ... Dredge agrees evolution happened. He's a Darwinist now. Message 379AZPaul3 writes:
Who can make sense of these contradictory comments? Oh bullshit. You are a YEC.You believe in a young earth. Are they the work of a madman? I sincerely hope not ...
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Dredge Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Percy writes:
A troll? If so, that is a grossly unfair assessment; the injustice of the century. The consensus here seems to be that you're a troll, not an idiot. I am here to bring light to the darkness of confusion and delusion.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Tanypteryx writes:
As George Costanza once said, "You disappoint me, my friend."
They are not mutually exclusive. The evidence shows he is an idiot and a troll.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
dwise1 writes:
I agree with "stupid" and "creationist" Dredge is still a willfully stupid lying evil creationist. ... but as for the other descriptives, not so much.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
AZPaul3 writes:
You think evolution proves that God is a fantasy? If so, that supports my theory that evolution is a product of atheism.
There are literally millions of data points that evidence evolution on a macro scale. Your lie that we do not have or understand this data is your religious intransigence against actual knowledge. Knowledge that calls your god a fantasy.
Your presence here is your continued attempt to subvert reality to foster the Big Lie that your god exists. It doesn’t. And you cannot show otherwise.
I can sum up your sermon with three sad words: Manifest Delusion.
We can show evolution as defined by the ToE. We can show micro to macro in the fossil record as well as in the lab. We know how whales evolved from pakicetus over 50 million years. We have the data. We have the fossils. And those that study these things all agree the evidence is conclusive. Whales evolved from the 4-legged land animal pakicetus and we know each step along the way and we have lots of fossils of the intermediate forms like ambulocetus, remingtoncetus and basilsaurus. And we can chart the same for millions of organism. Your contention that we do not know these things is a ridiculous fabrication borne of your catholic-centered stupidity and a deep need for you to lie your god back into contention as effective in this universe. The ToE is real. Your god is not.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
ringo writes:
In Message 343 I made the point that using science to explain evolutionary transitions in the fossil record is pointless unless the explanation can be proven to be correct ... in other words, without that proof, using science in that context is irrelevant. Explain. But you've ignored the context and taken the words "science is irrelevant" to make the absurd claim in Message 351 that I think all science is irrelevant. Why did you do that?
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Dredge Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
AZPaul3 writes:
I didn't know that.
Oh, not just evolution calls your god fake, so do physics, cosmology, chemistry, and all the sciences.
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