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Author Topic:   Coffee House Musings on Creationist Topic Proposals
Dredge
Member (Idle past 96 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 506 of 1429 (896204)
08-03-2022 7:41 AM
Reply to: Message 504 by vimesey
08-03-2022 7:27 AM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Do you specialize in any area of the law?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 504 by vimesey, posted 08-03-2022 7:27 AM vimesey has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 96 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 507 of 1429 (896205)
08-03-2022 8:02 AM
Reply to: Message 345 by Percy
07-21-2022 8:44 AM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Percy writes:
More accurately, it is assumed that life in the past followed the same processes as life today. We know how evolution works because we can observe it in real time today.
This comment represents a degree of progress and thus, a glimmer of hope.
You've at least admitted that ToE is based, not on a fact, but on an assumption. Well done.
There *is* a common creationist argument that life in the past was different from life today ... There is no evidence from the past, neither recent nor distant, that the processes of life were any different from today. If you think these processes were different in the past and at some point changed to the processes we observe today, what evidence are you looking at that tells you this, and when did the change happen?
I can't recall arguing that life in the past was different from life today.
We know exactly how evolution works because we observe it happening in the here and now.
I'm afraid not. You can't prove that known evolutionary mechanisms were responsible for producing the fossil record, therefore you can't claim to know how evolution works.
Simple logic shoots your claim down in flames. Sorry.
In the sense that you're using the word "know," no, of course not. Everything in science is tentative. What we would actually say is that the theory of evolution provides a robust explanatory framework for the history of life as revealed by the fossil record.
Can you see how confused you are? You say "We know exactly how evolution works" and in the very next sentence in your post you admit that you don't "know" that life on earth evolved according to ToE.
Anyone constructively participating in an exchange of information would ask clarifying questions when a point fails to connect. You instead seem to be working hard at not understanding anything while confounding efforts to communicate using strategies such as making absurd comments about your IQ.
I don't recall "making absurd comments about [my] IQ." There is an almost-unanimous opinion on this thread that I am an idiot. I agree with that opinion, which, after all, is formed by individuals of exceptionally high intelligence.
Science doesn't prove things. As with everything in the universe, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, the way we see things happening today is the way they must have happened in the past.
No one has ever observed known evolutionary mechanisms ever producing even a new genera, so what we see happening today is a very poor explanation for what happened in the fossil record, where entire new phyla appear.
Do you have any evidence that life in the past didn't reproduce via the replication of genetic material and that the organisms that passed their genes on to the next generation passed through a selection process governed by the natural environment? In the absence of such evidence, the theory of evolution is the best we have for explaining the available evidence.
I agree that that theory of evolution is the best scientific explanation for the fossil record ... which however, doesn't permit anyone to claim to know how evolution works.
In the same way, no matter what the current state of an organism's genome, no matter how much prior change there's been, what could prevent more mutations from occurring? Nothing could prevent this, right? There's nothing that could lock down a genome and prevent further change. If the organism reproduces there will be change, right?
You can't prove, for example, that the genome of a fish eventually gave rise to the gemone of a mammal.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 345 by Percy, posted 07-21-2022 8:44 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 519 by Percy, posted 08-03-2022 10:40 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 96 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 508 of 1429 (896206)
08-03-2022 8:12 AM
Reply to: Message 351 by ringo
07-21-2022 11:56 AM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
ringo writes:
And your conclusion is obviously nonsensical. Our science cures diseases and puts men on the moon. No sensible person would call it irrelevant.
A shameful example of contextomy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 351 by ringo, posted 07-21-2022 11:56 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 527 by ringo, posted 08-03-2022 11:53 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 96 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 509 of 1429 (896207)
08-03-2022 8:27 AM
Reply to: Message 364 by AZPaul3
07-21-2022 1:35 PM


Re: Dredge doesn't think anything
Percy writes:
More accurately, it is assumed that life in the past followed the same processes as life today. We know how evolution works because we can observe it in real time today.
This comment represents a degree of progress and thus, a glimmer of hope. You've at least admitted that ToE is based, not on a fact, but on an assumption. Well done.
There *is* a common creationist argument that life in the past was different from life today ... There is no evidence from the past, neither recent nor distant, that the processes of life were any different from today. If you think these processes were different in the past and at some point changed to the processes we observe today, what evidence are you looking at that tells you this, and when did the change happen?
I can't recall arguing that life in the past was different from life today.
We know exactly how evolution works because we observe it happening in the here and now.
I'm afraid not. You can't prove that known evolutionary mechanisms were responsible for producing the fossil record, therefore you can't claim to know how evolution works. Simple logic shoots your claim down in flames. Sorry.
In the sense that you're using the word "know," no, of course not. Everything in science is tentative. What we would actually say is that the theory of evolution provides a robust explanatory framework for the history of life as revealed by the fossil record.
Can you see how confused you are? You say "We know exactly how evolution works" and in the very next sentence in your post you admit that you don't "know" that life on earth evolved according to ToE.
Anyone constructively participating in an exchange of information would ask clarifying questions when a point fails to connect. You instead seem to be working hard at not understanding anything while confounding efforts to communicate using strategies such as making absurd comments about your IQ.
I don't recall "making absurd comments about [my] IQ." There is an almost-unanimous opinion on this thread that I am an idiot. I agree with that opinion, which, after all, is formed by individuals of exceptionally high intelligence.
Science doesn't prove things. As with everything in the universe, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, the way we see things happening today is the way they must have happened in the past.
No one has ever observed known evolutionary mechanisms ever producing even a new genera, so what we see happening today is a very poor explanation for what happened in the fossil record, where entire new phyla appear.
Do you have any evidence that life in the past didn't reproduce via the replication of genetic material and that the organisms that passed their genes on to the next generation passed through a selection process governed by the natural environment? In the absence of such evidence, the theory of evolution is the best we have for explaining the available evidence.
I agree that that theory of evolution is the best scientific explanation for the fossil record ... which however, doesn't permit anyone to claim to know how evolution works.
In the same way, no matter what the current state of an organism's genome, no matter how much prior change there's been, what could prevent more mutations from occurring? Nothing could prevent this, right? There's nothing that could lock down a genome and prevent further change. If the organism reproduces there will be change, right?
You can't prove, for example, that the genome of a fish eventually gave rise to the gemone of a mammal.

Edited by Dredge, .


This message is a reply to:
 Message 364 by AZPaul3, posted 07-21-2022 1:35 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 96 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 510 of 1429 (896208)
08-03-2022 8:29 AM
Reply to: Message 364 by AZPaul3
07-21-2022 1:35 PM


Re: Dredge doesn't think anything
AZPaul3 writes:
We can close this thread now. Dredge agrees evolution happened.
By "evolution" I don't necessarily mean a contiguos process of biological change.
He's a Darwinist now.
Not even close ...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 364 by AZPaul3, posted 07-21-2022 1:35 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 96 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 511 of 1429 (896209)
08-03-2022 8:37 AM
Reply to: Message 368 by dwise1
07-22-2022 12:32 AM


Re: It's Creationism That Makes Creationists Evil
Wow, what a superb rant!
It's your best one yet. Fascinating stuff.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 368 by dwise1, posted 07-22-2022 12:32 AM dwise1 has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 96 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 512 of 1429 (896210)
08-03-2022 8:42 AM
Reply to: Message 369 by Tangle
07-22-2022 2:20 AM


Re: It's Creationism That Makes Creationists Evil
Tangle writes:
“ The Roman Catholic Church has long accepted – or at least not objected to – evolutionary theory. Pope Francis is not the first pontiff to publicly affirm that evolution is compatible with church teachings. In 1950, in the encyclical “Humani Generis,” Pope Pius XII said that Catholic teachings on creation could coexist with evolutionary theory. Pope John Paul II went a bit further in 1996, calling evolution “more than a hypothesis.”
And?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 369 by Tangle, posted 07-22-2022 2:20 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 517 by Tangle, posted 08-03-2022 9:53 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 96 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 514 of 1429 (896212)
08-03-2022 8:50 AM
Reply to: Message 377 by AZPaul3
07-22-2022 7:27 AM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
AZPaul3 writes:
Argument? What argument? All you do is knee-jerk deny all evidence and troll the emotion.
Incorrect. I don't deny the evidence ... in fact, I accept that ToE is the best scientific explanation for the fossil record.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 377 by AZPaul3, posted 07-22-2022 7:27 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 516 by AZPaul3, posted 08-03-2022 9:21 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 520 by Percy, posted 08-03-2022 10:48 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 96 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 515 of 1429 (896213)
08-03-2022 9:04 AM
Reply to: Message 379 by AZPaul3
07-22-2022 7:41 AM


Re: Dredge Is YEC
Message 364
AZPaul3 writes:
You’re a Darwinist ... Dredge agrees evolution happened. He's a Darwinist now.
 
Message 379
AZPaul3 writes:
Oh bullshit. You are a YEC.
You believe in a young earth.
Who can make sense of these contradictory comments?
Are they the work of a madman? I sincerely hope not ...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 379 by AZPaul3, posted 07-22-2022 7:41 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 96 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 522 of 1429 (896224)
08-03-2022 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 519 by Percy
08-03-2022 10:40 AM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Percy writes:
The consensus here seems to be that you're a troll, not an idiot.
A troll? If so, that is a grossly unfair assessment; the injustice of the century.
I am here to bring light to the darkness of confusion and delusion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 519 by Percy, posted 08-03-2022 10:40 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 526 by Percy, posted 08-03-2022 11:40 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 96 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 523 of 1429 (896225)
08-03-2022 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 521 by Tanypteryx
08-03-2022 11:04 AM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Tanypteryx writes:
They are not mutually exclusive. The evidence shows he is an idiot and a troll.
As George Costanza once said, "You disappoint me, my friend."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 521 by Tanypteryx, posted 08-03-2022 11:04 AM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 525 by Tanypteryx, posted 08-03-2022 11:35 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 96 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 524 of 1429 (896227)
08-03-2022 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 385 by dwise1
07-22-2022 12:09 PM


Re: Dredge Is YEC
dwise1 writes:
Dredge is still a willfully stupid lying evil creationist.
I agree with "stupid" and "creationist"
... but as for the other descriptives, not so much.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 385 by dwise1, posted 07-22-2022 12:09 PM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 548 by dwise1, posted 08-03-2022 11:16 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 96 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 528 of 1429 (896232)
08-03-2022 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 386 by AZPaul3
07-22-2022 1:20 PM


Re: Dredge Is Still YEC
AZPaul3 writes:
There are literally millions of data points that evidence evolution on a macro scale. Your lie that we do not have or understand this data is your religious intransigence against actual knowledge. Knowledge that calls your god a fantasy.
You think evolution proves that God is a fantasy? If so, that supports my theory that evolution is a product of atheism.
Your presence here is your continued attempt to subvert reality to foster the Big Lie that your god exists. It doesn’t. And you cannot show otherwise.
We can show evolution as defined by the ToE. We can show micro to macro in the fossil record as well as in the lab. We know how whales evolved from pakicetus over 50 million years. We have the data. We have the fossils.
And those that study these things all agree the evidence is conclusive. Whales evolved from the 4-legged land animal pakicetus and we know each step along the way and we have lots of fossils of the intermediate forms like ambulocetus, remingtoncetus and basilsaurus.
And we can chart the same for millions of organism.
Your contention that we do not know these things is a ridiculous fabrication borne of your catholic-centered stupidity and a deep need for you to lie your god back into contention as effective in this universe.
The ToE is real. Your god is not.
I can sum up your sermon with three sad words: Manifest Delusion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 386 by AZPaul3, posted 07-22-2022 1:20 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 531 by nwr, posted 08-03-2022 12:27 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 532 by AZPaul3, posted 08-03-2022 1:07 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 96 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 533 of 1429 (896241)
08-03-2022 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 527 by ringo
08-03-2022 11:53 AM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
ringo writes:
Explain.
In Message 343 I made the point that using science to explain evolutionary transitions in the fossil record is pointless unless the explanation can be proven to be correct ... in other words, without that proof, using science in that context is irrelevant.
But you've ignored the context and taken the words "science is irrelevant" to make the absurd claim in Message 351 that I think all science is irrelevant.
Why did you do that?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 527 by ringo, posted 08-03-2022 11:53 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 539 by ringo, posted 08-03-2022 3:18 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 551 by Percy, posted 08-04-2022 8:02 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 96 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 534 of 1429 (896242)
08-03-2022 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 532 by AZPaul3
08-03-2022 1:07 PM


Re: Dredge Is Still YEC
AZPaul3 writes:
Oh, not just evolution calls your god fake, so do physics, cosmology, chemistry, and all the sciences.
I didn't know that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 532 by AZPaul3, posted 08-03-2022 1:07 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
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